A couple of questions..
What do you say when asked about how God in the Old Testiment had his believers kill others, and yet the 10 Commandments say Thou Shalt Not Kill?
I need help with that.
And..
Paul was a sinner like all of us, and he even said..
I Timothy 1:15
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."
If after we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, and the Holy Spirit comes upon us as it did Paul, then why did he say "..I am.." instead of "..I was.."
Thanks for the help.
God Bless you in the name of Jesus.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
avseven Registered User
Posts: 9
(1/19/03 8:19 am) Reply
Re: A couple of questions..
Quote:
What do you say when asked about how God in the Old Testiment had his believers kill others, and yet the 10 Commandments say Thou Shalt Not Kill?
I need help with that.
The problem is that people don't read the whole bible: they just take one verse, try to build a theology around it, or build a "philosophy" upon it, or a political agenda,and when they eventually run into another verse somewhere that doesn't seem to get along with their verse, they just shrug their shoulders, and point out that the bible is full of contradictions, so you can't take the thing "literally", and so forth, and so on... Or, they pervert the scriptures, to try to make them "teach" what they do not say. That is the approach of the intellectually dishonest, the intellectually lazy, the mentally passive, and the bible illiterate.
Another approach of course is to survey the book, from Genesis to Revelation, on a consistent basis. This approach trains a christian to handle the "problem texts". Ready...?
"He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death." (Exodus 21:12)
Here is another one.
"And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death." (Exodus 21:15)
Here is another one.
"And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16-17)
Paying attention? Learning anything yet?
Exodus 20:13 is "the law". For every "law" there is a...?
Judgment. Exodus 21, which comes immediately after Exodus 20, deals with, What do you do when a citizen violates "the law"? Well, you punish him, right? You give him a "penalty", right?
As in "death penalty".
War is God's judgment here, hell is God's judgment hereafter.
Quote:
And..
Paul was a sinner like all of us, and he even said..
I Timothy 1:15
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."
If after we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, and the Holy Spirit comes upon us as it did Paul, then why did he say "..I am.." instead of "..I was.."
Ah, yes, the old "holiness" doctrine that a "true christian" will not sin, and if you sin, you're not a true christian, and if you "continue in sin", you lose your salvation, and so forth, and so on, and "Praise God, hallelujah...!
That doctrine ran into quite a pothole, over in 1 Timothy, eh buddy? Tee hee.
"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15) .
You thought that because you have the "holyghost", you would become sinless, huh? Come on, admit it. Honesty is the best policy.
Did you ever Read Romans 7?
"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:14-25)
Better study that passage. It has the answers you seek. Don't believe a word I say. Don't trust me. You believe the book? Do you trust God? Well, there is God's answer to your "riddle".
Your flesh is a rotting, filthy corpse, my friend. The Spirit of God, if you received Christ as Saviour, and he gave you a new birth, has quickened your spirit, and circumcised your soul, from your flesh. In a lost man, his soul is attached to his flesh, and so when he dies, he dies in his sins.
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses..." (Colossians 2:11-13)
Where did he "quicken" you? In your flesh? Nope. Why do christians die? You ever think about that one? Christians have eternal life, right? Well, then why do they die?
Why did Peter and John and Paul, die?
Because they've got Adam's blood flowing through those veins. They got in Christ's bloodline, but adoption and genetics are two different things.
You are a body, a soul, and a spirit. When a man gets a new birth, something happened to his soul, and to his spirit. But his body?
"But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: (1 Corinthians 15:35-36)
You've got questions? The book's got answers.
"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Corinthians 15:42-53)
I know. They didn't teach that at your church. Welcome to earth, kid.
Re: avseven
avseven. . . I find you to be a very arrogant person, in not just this post, but all your post, stick to apologetics issues, and leave out all the snide remarks and side commentaries, its, one not pleasant to read, and two, very belligerent. . . I don't get to this board as much as I use to, but when I do, I don't like to see such insolence, please refrain, or you will be banned, also, you complained about this board being a bit slow, we run a few chat rooms as well, plus have lives to lead as well. . . I would suggest you either seek a life yourself, or fine a board that is a bit more fast pasted. . . Furthermore, immediately after you answer this, and I observe that you have taken this admonishment with humbleness and unpretentiousness, I will gladly debate you in a somewhat formal manner, if you believe you have the capability to rise to this occasion, I shall detected by the meekness of your response.
Re: avseven
Ban me if you must. I have my own board. I don't need to kiss your hiney.
As for "arrogance", you're a hypocrite. You didn't even respond to anything Iwrote. You know why? Because you're not intelligent enough to respond. Just a lot of girlish whining about my "personality". Good grief. Grow up.
You'll never learn any bible, with that effeminate whimpering of yours.
If you ever do grow up, come visit a real bible discussion board, where we discuss the bible, not each others' "personality".
In the meantime, go ahead and ban me, for making you cry. I still got my point across, didn't I?
The christian warrior is living in fantasyland, in his playpen, sucking on his thumb, and shooting his water pistol. Him big, strong warrior. Tee hee.
Re: avseven
Definitely not a response from a true born again Christian.
What would God think if you said that to Him?
Well, you did, for KingJehu has the Holy Spirit of God within him.
I think you need to remember, you are not supposed to represent yourself.You are supposed to represent God and Jesus.
And with that attitude, you aren't.
Men are like fine wine.
They all start out like grapes, and it's a woman's job to stomp on them and keep them in the dark until they mature into something which they'd like to have dinner with.
Re: avseven
I agree with you Jehu. Avseven: some of the things you have to say are correct and show some wisdom. However, you must know that when you present something in the manner in which you are doing it, people are less likely to respond positively to you. Your arrogance and disregard for others clearly shines through. We must remember that Christ did not walk in Arrogance, he walked in confidence, but never put others down or acted superior. Rather, he lifted others up! Why can't you do this?
Paul said: "I am all things to all men, that I might win a few." How many will you "win" with arrogance? Share your wisdom with us in a manner that we will find lovely and appreciative. If you cannot do this, I am afraid that God will never allow you to have much of a ministry. Because you will slaughter more sheep than lead them to safety. Feed God's sheep. Don't slaughter them.
Re: avseven
avseven errrrrr you didnt respond to my post, other then to make one snide remark, there is nothing I haven't answered, AND your post wasn't even addressed to me. . . don't you think people can read, and see what is going on? You come in here a someone that is taught by man, what to think, and not the Holy Spirit. Your doctrine is full of holes, and you do not wish to address it, and for good reason, because it isnt sound at all. . .
King Jehu. . .
PS You might what to look at Ephessians 6:10-17 to understand the meaning of Christian Warrior, that alone shows you to be unversed, which in itself is not bad, but when you act like you do, it becomes evident, your not seeking truth, just trolling.