MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 205
(4/17/02 6:44 am) Reply
Calvinism Vs. Arminianism...
The Marty Minto Show [Aug. 11, 2000]; guest host Dr. James R. White (Alpha & Omega Ministries) engages in a casual discussion on Calvinism / Arminianism with guest, Dr. Dave Hunt (The Berean Call):
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 349
(4/20/02 12:09 pm) Reply
Re: Calvinism Vs. Arminianism...
Calvinism Contrasted with Arminianism
The Five Points of Calvinism
The Five Points of Arminianism
Total Depravity
Sin controls every part of man. He is spiritually dead and blind and unable to obey, believe or repent. He continually sins, for his nature is completely evil.
Free Will
Sin does not control Man's will. He is sick and near-sighted but still able to obey, believe and repent. He does not continually sin, for his nature is not completely evil.
Unconditional Election
God chose the elect solely on the basis of His free grace, not anything in them. He has a special love for the elect. God left the rest to be damned for their sin.
Conditional Election
God chose the elect on the basis of their foreseen faith. He loves all men equally. God passed over no one, but gives everyone an equal chance to be saved.
Limited Atonement
Christ died especially for the elect and paid a definite price for them that guaranteed their salvation.
Universal Atonement
Christ died equally for all men and paid a provisional price that made salvation possible for all but guaranteed it for none.
Irresistible Grace
Saving grace is irresistible, for the Holy Spirit is invincible and intervenes in Man's heart. He sovereignly gives the new birth, faith and repentance to the elect.
Resistible Grace
Saving grace is resistible, for God cannot interfere with Man's free will. Man is born again after he believes, for faith and repentance are not gifts of God.
Perseverance of the Saints
God preserves all the elect and causes them to persevere in faith and obedience to the end. None are continually backslidden or finally lost.
Falling from Grace
Only a few Christians continue in faith and obedience to the end (Arminians are divided over whether one can actually lose his salvation).
GLORY TO GOD'S FREE GRACE
GLORY TO MAN'S FREE WILL
Courtesy of the Reformed Bible Church
Springfield, IL. Pastor Curt Daniel.
Re: Calvinism Vs. Arminianism...
Sin controls every part of man. He is spiritually dead and blind and unable to obey, believe or repent. He continually sins, for his nature is completely evil.
(Over and Over God tells the wicked to repent... over and over... why? If they can't repent?)
God chose the elect solely on the basis of His free grace, not anything in them. He has a special love for the elect. God left the rest to be damned for their sin.
(Then why does God tell turn to the grace of God?) Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; (Showing it lies with man as well. It is a gift of God, no doubt, but the gift is given freely to those that want it, by seeking the Lord.) Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Christ died especially for the elect and paid a definite price for them that guaranteed their salvation.
(Christ brought even the false ones.) 2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
Saving grace is irresistible, for the Holy Spirit is invincible and intervenes in Man's heart. He sovereignly gives the new birth, faith and repentance to the elect.
Galations 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
2 Corinitains 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Galations 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
(Many many more just like it.)
God preserves all the elect and causes them to persevere in faith and obedience to the end. None are continually backslidden or finally lost.
(Same thing as not being able to fall from grace or salvation.)
Arminianism
Sin does not control Man's will. He is sick and near-sighted but still able to obey, believe and repent. He does not continually sin, for his nature is not completely evil.
(Bull. We are all under sin, and as long as of the flesh continually sinning, we are evil by nature... but as john said, and others, God sheds his light in us enough to know we should not do evil... rom 1:20 and other places as well show this.)
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(Some of the wanted to turn from darkness "evil" and Christ quickened them.)
He loves all men equally.
(Not so God favors some men above others, and women such as Mary who was favored above all, its man faith in God that determines this, look at King David, Asa and Enoch amoung others... MUST people want to believe that God loves them just as much as He did King David, but this is clearly not the case... )
Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
(And Christ)
for faith and repentance are not gifts of God.
(In a sense that is wrong to me as well, because first God must see a wanting of one to not do evil... before He will allow repentance.)
Only a few Christians continue in faith and obedience to the end.
(Wrong again, it is a very hard thing to fall from the grace of God, even those Paul was warning, had not fallen completely.)
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 359
(4/21/02 7:40 am) Reply
Re: Calvinism Vs. Arminianism...
You have no idea what you believe, as far as I can tell, Jehu. Man is dead, not just sick, but if he wants to "turn" from evill...
DEAD MEN ARE DEAD!!
they don't want to turn they lay there in their deadness. Thus you obviously believe man is only sick, but you don't even realize it.
The same kind of mistakes are made over and over in this "response".
Another example;
"Not so God favors some men above others, and women such as Mary who was favored above all, its man faith in God that determines this,..."
Thus, you make God a respector of persons.
etc. etc.
The comparison holds up, and Arminianism gives the glory to man's will, and not God's grace.
You would be closer to the Book of Mormon than the Bible:
"We are saved by grace, after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:23)
"Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given unto them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself." (2 Nephi 2:27)
"come unto Christ and be perfected in him, and deny yourself of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourself of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ." (Moroni 10:32)
Re: Calvinism Vs. Arminianism...
We were dead once as well my friend If we can be saved so can they then. Let me ask you this... do you love God because of your won free will or because God foreordained it?
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 364
(4/21/02 8:50 am) Reply
Re: Calvinism Vs. Arminianism...
I would have remained dead just like them, if God didn't ressurect me.
Eph. 2:4-7 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
I love God because He has raised me up in Christ Jesus and given me a new heart that desires to love Him, and freely chooses to do so.
Re: Calvinism Vs. Arminianism...
Right and just like he raised you He can raise them... you limite the power of God to say He can't raise them even if they wanted it... and what makes you sooo special anyway... monkeesage... is that it, you want to feel all good inside, God loves you and hates them... this helps you sleep at night, to think God picked you and made you love Him by His will?
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 370
(4/21/02 10:03 am) Reply
Re: Calvinism Vs. Arminianism...
"Right and just like he raised you He can raise them... you limite the power of God to say He can't raise them even if they wanted it..."
This must be more amazing reasoning that us normal human can't follow. Since 1) I have been stating that God can save anyone He pleases to save and 2) that none ever want it until God changes their heart...
Amazing...it must be a miracle that could change that into "limiting the power of God to say He can't raise them even if they wanted it"--it is a sign from God, hallelujah!
Jehu, you should use your amazing mental gifts to help the government or something! :)
Re: Calvinism Vs. Arminianism...
Again nothing but ad hominems if thats all you have to offer we must be done.
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 377
(4/21/02 10:50 am) Reply
Re: Calvinism Vs. Arminianism...
Sarcasm isn't ad hominem, and if your brain is so sharp that it can reverse exactly what is being said, then you should go the military, if it is not and you knew you were reversing it, that nis misrepresentation, which actually is a form of ad hominem...you're choice, your brains is super sharp, or you intentionally changed what I said. Let's make no bones about it if you want to accuse of ad hominem.
If we can be saved so can they then. Let me ask you this... do you love God because of your won free will or because God foreordained it? 
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