I prefer to have the RCC and its members post their answers here, as they can be categorized, and sorted, and not a bunch of confusion... I do understand why catholic's don't wish to answer though. I understand fully. Like in the debate room there are something's the RCC teaches that their members won't touch in a debate with a 20 foot pole.
Thanks fot the invite though... and I'm surprised that a RC board would even let others that have quetions that can't be answered even post on their board... so I guess it can't be all that bad.
SUZANNE1 Registered User
Posts: 2
(6/13/02 4:45 pm) Reply
Re: Communion's Catholic Message Boards
"Like in the debate room there are something's the RCC teaches that their members won't touch in a debate with a 20 foot pole. "
That's absolutely false.
I hope people who'd like to learn more about Catholicism actually learn it from Catholics.
Re: Communion's Catholic Message Boards
Ho darlin, thats not wrong... there are many things Catholics will not debate on, and don't get me wrong, I don't hold Catholics as unsaved as many do. "THOUGH the official RCC doctrine says I and everyone outside the RCC is doomed" I don't count you as doomed. Fact is we have some Catholics as ops in #ChristianWarrior and mt Grandmother is Catholic as well, and a saint above most. "To bad the RCC doesn't recognize her a one." Now if you claim to represent the RCC then you will have to live and defend that doctrine. Either that, or your a Catholic that doesn't adhere to all the doctrines of your church. So before I even show you "your" church doctrine down the ages... one do you uphold the written doctrine of the RCC, and two are you will to defend it here? Or do you have a ten foot pole too?
SUZANNE1 Registered User
Posts: 3
(6/26/02 9:58 pm) Reply
Re: Communion's Catholic Message Boards
" there are many things Catholics will not debate on"
I've never met a serious Catholic apologist who shrank from a debate on any Catholic doctrine.
""THOUGH the official RCC doctrine says I and everyone outside the RCC is doomed""
That's not true. First of all, all Christians baptized in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are technically members of the Catholic Church; that's why Protestant converts are not re-baptized but 'received' into the Church. Secondly, if you read the Catholic Catechism, you'll see the Church does not condemn all non-Catholics to hell."
"Now if you claim to represent the RCC then you will have to live and defend that doctrine."
I am accept all doctrines of the Catholic Church.
"do you uphold the written doctrine of the RCC, "
I uphold the Catholic Church's definition of Catholic doctrine, not any Protestant misrepresentation of Catholic doctrine.
"two are you will to defend it here? Or do you have a ten foot pole too?"
If I had the time, I would, but since I am a mother to a young baby, with two message boards, a website, a website for my baby, etc, I don't quite have the time. However, if anyone reading feels incline to debate with Catholics, there are Catholics on my board who will readily answer objections to Catholic teaching. I don't even have time for debates on my own boards, much less debates on others.
Re: Communion's Catholic Message Boards
("THOUGH the official RCC doctrine says I and everyone outside the RCC is doomed")
That's not true. First of all, all Christians baptized in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are technically members of the Catholic Church;
(Well sure it is.)
"With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved." (Denzinger 423)
"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." (Denz. 469)
(I and MANY are not subject to the Roman Pontiff and by that we are doomed!)
"Where the necessity of salvation is concerned all the faithful of Christ must be subject to the Roman Pontiff, as we are taught by Holy Scripture, the testimony of the holy fathers, and by that constitution of our predecessor of happy memory, Boniface VIII, which begins Unam Sanctam." (Pope Leo X, Fifth Lateran Council (1512-1517) Conciliorum Oecumenicorum Decreta, Edidit Centro di Documentazione, Instituto per Science Religiose, Herder, Bologna, 1962, no. 40, pp. 619, 620.)
(No twisting the words there, it means just what it says, if it doenst why mislead us with these very words?)
"It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood." (Denzinger 1647)
(You should look into your doctrine and see just what it says.)
"This is our last lesson to you: receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church; the strong and effective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate." (Pope Leo XIII, Allocution for the 25th anniversary of his election, February 20, 1903; Papal Teachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962, par. 653.Encyclical, Annum Ingressi Sumus)
(Not only am I not subject to your Pope, but don't agree with many thinsg he says and does, like when he KISSED the Koran!)
Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors. Did not the ancestors of those who are now entangled in the errors of Photius and the reformers, obey the Bishop of Rome, the chief shepherd of souls? Alas their children left the home of their fathers, but it did not fall to the ground and perish for ever, for it was supported by God. Let them therefore return to their common Father, who, forgetting the insults previously heaped on the Apostolic See, will receive them in the most loving fashion. For if, as they continually state, they long to be united with Us and ours, why do they not hasten to enter the Church, 'the Mother and mistress of all Christ's faithful?' Let them hear Lactantius crying out: 'The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship. This is the fount of truth, this is the house of Faith, this is the temple of God: if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. Let none delude himself with obstinate wrangling. For life and salvation are here concerned, which will be lost and entirely destroyed, unless their interests are carefully and assiduously kept in mind.'" (Pope Pius XI, Encyclical, Mortalium animos, January 6, 1928, The Papal Encyclicals, Claudia Carlen, I.H.M., McGrath Publishing Co., 1981, pp. 317, 318.)
(You should learn who you are yoked to...)
"O Mary Mother of Mercy and Refuge of Sinners! We beseech thee to look with pitying eyes on poor heretics and schismatics. Do thou, who art the Seat of Wisdom, enlighten the minds wretchedly enfolded in the darkness of ignorance and sin, that they may clearly recognize the Holy, Catholic, Roman Church to be the only true Church of Jesus Christ, outside of which neither sanctity nor salvation can be found. Call them to the unity of the one fold, granting them the grace to believe every truth of our holy faith and to submit themselves to the Supreme Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth, that, thus being united with us by the sweet chains of charity, there may soon be but one fold under one and the same Shepherd; and may we all thus, O Glorious Virgin, exultantly sing forever: 'Rejoice, O Virgin Mary! Thou alone hast destroyed all heresies in the whole world!' Amen." (Pope Pius XII, The Raccolta, Benzinger Brothers, Boston, 1957, No. 626.)
(Read them all, you where very much wrong, the RCC says just what I said it says, if your not catholic your doomed to hell, there is no way to say its out of context, as it has been tried time and time again and fails, you can post the whole vol of each doctrine here and it doesnt change them words one bit.)
"Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved." (Encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)
"The Saviour Himself is the door of the sheepfold: 'I am the door of the sheep.' Into this fold of Jesus Christ, no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff; and only if they be united to him can men be saved, for the Roman Pontiff is the Vicar of Christ and His personal representative on earth." (Pope John XXIII, homily to the Bishops assisting at his coronation on November 4, 1958Papal Teachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, Boston, St. Paul Editions, 1962, par. 1556.)
(See told ya )
"According to the words of St. Augustine, who takes up an image dear to the ancient Fathers, the ship of the Church must not fear, because it is guided by Christ and by His Vicar. 'Although the ship is tossed about, it is still a ship. It alone carries the disciples and receives Christ. Yes, it is tossed on the sea, but, without it, one would immediately perish." (Sermon, 75,3; PL 28, 475) Only in the Church is salvation. 'Without it one perishes.' (Pope John Paul I, First Allocution, August 27, 1978, L'Osservatore Romano, August 28,29, 1978.)
(I'm not of the church of the roman "Vicar" but of the Church and Body of Christ... so by that I'm doomed, because I don't adhear to your Pope or man made doctrines I and everyone like me is doomed. Now reread all of them, its VERY clear, they come out right and say just that many times...)
"The holy Roman Church believes, professes, and preaches that no one remaining outside the Catholic Church, not just pagans, but also Jews or heretics or schismatics, can become partakers of eternal life; but they will go to the 'everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life they are joined to the Church. For the union with the body of the Church is of such importance that the sacraments of the Church are helpful to salvation only for those remaining in it; and fasts, almsgiving, other works of piety, and the exercise of Christian warfare bear eternal rewards for them alone. And no one can be saved, no matter how much alms he has given, even if he sheds his blood for the name of Christ, unless he remains in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1438-45, From the Bull "Cantate Domino", February 4, 1441 (Florentine style) Decree for the Jacobites, Denz. 165.)
"It is shown also that it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." (Opuscula Theologica, Vol. I, Part 2, Chap. 36, Edited by Fr. Raymond A. Verardo, O.P., Marietta, Turin, 1954, p. 344.)
There are many more just like them.
>>>> you: I uphold the Catholic Church's definition of Catholic doctrine, not any Protestant misrepresentation of Catholic doctrine.
Well them words are your church doctrine, if its a misrepresentation, then show clearly how so. NOT all catholics believe all RCC doctrine, but they don't deny what it says, they just don't agree with it... do you agree with it, that one must be a Catholic and subject to the Pope to be saved, or willyou admit the RCC doctrine is wrong in many parts.
Re: See!! SUZANNE1
SUZANNE1 Just like I said, as in the debate rooms, won't touch it with a ten foot pole. That is your church doctrine and your church Pope and elders words... you said it wasn't there and it is, and now that you read it, and learn what your church doctrine is, you feel offended, don't shoot the messanger... I just showed you what you didn't know about your church... there is no way to defend it, has nothing to do with time... none can defend or deny what the RCC says...
Let me ask you this though... how doyou feel about the women that is sueing the RCC to become a preist... do you believe thet should just let her... or are women not worthy or somehow not right for the preisthood?
SUZANNE1 Registered User
Posts: 5
(7/1/02 10:07 pm) Reply
I don't think so
"That is your church doctrine and your church Pope and elders words... "
No, that is YOUR INTERPRETATION of the words of the Magisterium. If you want a summary of Catholic belief, read the Catechism. I do not subscribe to Protestant misinterpretation of Catholic doctrine.
"... I just showed you what you didn't know about your church... "
I'm a history major, and I've been participating in interreligious dialogue with non-Catholics since 1995-- I'm not new to this.
I know what is said about Catholic doctrine, and those who say the Church teaches that Protestants are damned are just plain wrong and do not know Catholic Tradition. Quote away,
you simply don't understand what you're saying.
"there is no way to defend it, has nothing to do with time... "
Catholic doctrine develops. It does have to do with time.
"SUZANNE1 Just like I said, as in the debate rooms, won't touch it with a ten foot pole. "
No, that's what you'd like to believe. You'd like to believe that I have all the time in the world to explain Catholic doctrine to someone who is obviously not inclined to learn what it is the Catholic Church teaches. It's in the Catechism. Just read it there. When you've learned what the Catechism says, you've learned what the Church teaches.
".. how doyou feel about the women that is sueing the RCC to become a preist..."
I never heard of it, but if she is, it's completely ridiculous. You can't sue the Church into changing a doctrine.
"or are women not worthy or somehow not right for the preisthood? "
God made men and women for different purposes. A priest is an icon of Christ, and as such should be male. Christ didn't chose any women to be among the first 12 Apostles. God didn't allow women to be priests of the Ancient Temple, either.
Re: I don't think so
No, that is YOUR INTERPRETATION of the words of the Magisterium. If you want a summary of Catholic belief, read the Catechism. I do not subscribe to Protestant misinterpretation of Catholic doctrine.
(What the heck you talking about, those are your church elders and your church popes talking there... its rcc doctrine at its finest... there is no "YOUR INTERPRETATION" I just posted what they said, I didnt say ANYHTING about what it means... you interprated it yourself... and just proved ya didnt agree with it."
I'm a history major, and I've been participating in interreligious dialogue with non-Catholics since 1995-- I'm not new to this.
I know what is said about Catholic doctrine, and those who say the Church teaches that Protestants are damned are just plain wrong and do not know Catholic Tradition. Quote away,
you simply don't understand what you're saying.
(AGAIN I just posted what they said, what ever you got out of it was from your own thoughts. And if you have only been talking to non catholics about their side of things since 1995 I hope your very young... because one should always seek what others think and say about their church elders writings"
No, that's what you'd like to believe. You'd like to believe that I have all the time in the world to explain Catholic doctrine to someone who is obviously not inclined to learn what it is the Catholic Church teaches. It's in the Catechism. Just read it there. When you've learned what the Catechism says, you've learned what the Church teaches.
(Oh Really so your going on record here as saying the Catechism is the ONLY official RCC doctrine... seeeems so to me, so before I go on lets get this straight... your saying the only RCC doctrine is the book on Catechism... yes/no)
God made men and women for different purposes. A priest is an icon of Christ, and as such should be male.
(Oh man, I can't beleive you wrote that! a priest is a icon of Christ! Like the ones that molested them little boys huh... icons of Christ... NOT!)
The fact remains those quotes are your pope and your elders and they say just what they say and they mean what they say.
Re: Communion's Catholic Message Boards
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