Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
hhmmmmm my belief is this... if say a man lived in china in 2000 bc, lived a good life, harmed no one, loved his family, loved man and loved what he percieved to be God... , Then I believe he is spared from hell... just like I believe Able was... yet never heard the gospel...
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 252
(4/18/02 4:10 pm) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
Can people can be saved without faith, as long as they live a "good" life?
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(By finding out what "and for this cause" is and stopping it, and they need you to show them this... that you may have effect on their very soul.)
Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
(Them ole fire and brimestone preachers have a purpose... )
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 260
(4/18/02 4:45 pm) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
No one can be saved apart from faith, by living good enough, because one sin condemns a person to hell (Ezek. 33:10-16), and if righteousness comes by doing works of the law then Christ died in vain (Gal. 2:21); and faith comes by hearing the Gospel (Rom. 10:17); so then how does one who has never had the Gospel have a chance to have faith?
Well thats faith in Christ... to have faith in Christ one must hear the gospels... look at Able... he never read them... nor enoch... but as far as the works of the law goes... yes your right there...
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 264
(4/18/02 5:04 pm) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
Old Testament saints had the promises of the prophets, and believed them, gentiles nations didn't have that "chance"...
Gal. 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Heb. 11:39-40 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
What Prophet did Able have? Name him.
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 270
(4/18/02 8:06 pm) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
His Father was Adam, who walked with and talked with God in the Garden...I think he would have special claim to knowledge of God...he even made atoning sacrifices (Gen. 4:3-4).
Whether Able had prophets or not doesn't answer the question, though...given your view of salvation, how can anyone have a chance to believe when they are, as Paul said, in "ignorance" (Acts 17:23, 30)..."How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?..." (Rom. 10:14-15)?
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
what makes you think God don't come to them in the spirit like he did adam? Your the one that said they all needed the prophets not me, i just showed you they didn't.
Answer to the question... how did Adam?
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 273
(4/18/02 9:35 pm) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
Doesn't matter.
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?..."
How, exactly?
If they couldn't believe unless they heard the message of redemption by God, how could those who never had the chance, e.g., ancient norse people, have a "chance" to believe?
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
We already went over this, same way Adam knew God... and Abraham as well had no one tell Him of God... Moses didn't learn of God by a book or prophets either... hey Paul never read the gospels either... it was the meeting on the highway... in da hills
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 278
(4/19/02 12:05 am) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
No, Adam knew direct intercourse, Abraham was the first Jew, with whom the covenant promise of a Redeemer was established, Moses was a prophet, called of God.
Gal. 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
How did Gentiles in the OT have a "chance" when they had no knowledge of the true God and their worship was demonic (1 Cor. 10:20)?
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
No, Adam knew direct intercourse, Abraham was the first Jew, with whom the covenant promise of a Redeemer was established, Moses was a prophet, called of God.
Who is to say God didn't do likewise to the others... the norsemen and such... either by out and out coming to them or by the spirit? He did it with others, you admit that... yes Moses was a prophet... BUT he knew God by Gods direct contact with Him...
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 282
(4/19/02 12:32 am) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
I would not say He didn't do such, as you have seen from my answers earlier about Native Americans, you however, believe that it takes an act on man's part to be imputed with the faith of Christ. On your view, how could anyone (whose worship was demonic and who suppressed the truth in unrighteousness) have a "chance," apart from being told about the true God?
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