MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 305
(4/19/02 11:13 pm) Reply
God hates and loves the World...
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Since "world" can only mean one thing--anything else is to ""change" the Word, we are told--namely, "every single individual in the world," then we must conclude that God hates "every single individual in the world."
"...that the works [of the world] are evil"
"...[God] hatest all workers of iniquity"
This of course, is not accurate. It simply goes to show the error inherent in "face value" reading of the Word of God. In truth, "world" means a number of different things, not just "every single individual in the world"--in fact, it hardly ever means that.
The attempt to make it have that meaning is simply an attempt to support a doctrine; and is not reading the Word honestly, nor rightly dividing it.
I don't see how you can claim that God hates the world. He created the world, and everything in it.
And as far as humanity, God loves us so much, He gave His only Son, Jesus, to die for our sins.
That isn't an act of hatret, it's the ultimate act of love.
God hates sin, but loves the sinner. IMHO.
Take care and God Bless You!
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 356
(4/21/02 7:01 am) Reply
Re: God hates and loves the World...
God doesn't hate the world, He hates some people who are in the world. The point of my post was that if world always means "every single individual in the world" (which it does not), then God must hate the "world" because its works are wicked, and God hates all workers of iniquity. Of course, "world" doesn't mean "every single individual in the world." I was only exposing the error of forcing a meaning into a word instead of finding out what it means in its own context and application.
BTW, Psa. 5:5 says that God hates workers, that means people, their works are iniquity, but God hates the workers themselves, not only their works.
Re: God hates and loves the World...
You were a sinner too... Did God hate you MonkeeSage>?
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 363
(4/21/02 8:47 am) Reply
Re: God hates and loves the World...
Nope. Eph. 1:3-12, I have been eternally chosen in Christ, though if God would have treated me according to justice, He certainly would have.
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 369
(4/21/02 10:00 am) Reply
Re: God hates and loves the World...
Yes, that must be what I was saying, which is why I said that God would have hated me if He would have acted according to justice towards me.
This must be an example of the exacting critical thinking skills that produce Arminians. Amazing, dazzling. It must be so far above those of us with normal human minds, that it seems like incoherent speech to us.
I'm thankful that I've been blessed to witness this marvel.
Re: God hates and loves the World...
Its right above for all to see...
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 374
(4/21/02 10:42 am) Reply
Re: God hates and loves the World...
Indeed, God has preserved his miracle of reasoning, proformed through you, right above for all to see; that colossal feat of logic that goes from `you were a sinner...did God hate you?' -- `nope' -- to ` you wern't a sinner!'
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 381
(4/21/02 11:16 am) Reply
Re: God hates and loves the World...
There was no question about being a sinner. Perhaps your English grammar is rusty?
You were a sinner too... -- Indicative statement. A statement of fact; an assertion, setting up what comes in the second part of the clause:
Did God hate you MonkeeSage>? -- Interrogative statement. A statement of interrogation (questioning), since "you were a sinner too" -- "did God hate you [too]?"
Thus my reply; "nope" answers your interrogative, and does not negate your assertion that I was a sinner.
Re: God hates and loves the World...
You are a sinner?
1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
"Okay by that its clear, you can rewrite it, shape it and make it into what you want or you can take it for what it says. I have had people curse me and shun me because of that verse, and that's their choice... I will not however denie the words of God."
James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
"Go back up and read what happens when we become PURE. But wait! what of what John wrote just before then?"
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
"Taken out of context? Kind of."
1 John 1:7-9 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
"To be clean of sin, is absent of it. Man is born of the flesh, and the flesh is sin, so all have sinned, no one is saying we all haven't, but once born into the spirit, you are reborn a new creature by the quickening of your spirit with Christ. Christ will not partake in sin."
Galations 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
"Christ will not partake in sin, a Christian is born anew into spirit, and that spirit is him. He is no longer of the flesh... He died on the cross with Christ."
2 Corinitains 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
"Paul put it this way"
Romans 7:14-25 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do... I allow not: -for what I would-, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
"There it is again!" It is no more I that do it! "The sin that dwelleth in me is the sins of the flesh, I'm reborn into spirit!"
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
"There it is again!" It is no more I that do it!
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
"So Paul is saying, the evil which I don't want to do, I keep doing! And the good that i wish to do, I don't do! Therefore its not really me doing bad things because God knows my heart and I dont want to do them, and the things which I wish to do and don't, thats the real me but sometimes this stupid flesh I'm trapped in won't let me do it!"
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
If Christ is your minister Father forbid sin to be in you, for Christ will not partake in sin. Therefore He gives us new life 'the quickening' in spirit, and a spirit free from sin."
Galations 5:16-18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
"What the heck did that say!!! How dare the bible say something your preacher didn't teach you! Lets just cross all them verses out.
God knows your heart, He knows you don't wish to do the things your flesh does, He is telling you, don't beat yourself up about them, you mess up, know your pure by the blood of Christ and get back to doing what you want to do... righteousness. You know HOW MANY people leave God because others drill in them that they sin all the time and everything they do is a sin, and they can never be righteous, yet God uses the term righteous man of God all the time... but thats another topic... though the same. So what burdens will you put on your fellow man, and how are you going to explain all them verses away, you can explain them away to yourself i'm sure, but I bet i beat ya in a debate on it... and look, heres comes some more..."
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
"Don't sell the blood of Christ as less then it's worth."
Romans 8:1-3 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Ezekiel 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul. "There it is again! And thats the Hebrew."
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
1 Peter 4:17-18 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
"Hhhmmmmm your a sinner... or your reborn into spirit and your flesh sins?"
there are many things I do that Jesus wouldn't do... but he took all my sin on the cross, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak... IF one doesn't want to smoke, but does, then it is not him doing it, HE doesn't want to, He wishes and prays he could stop... who would want to smoke... A Christian lives by the spirit not the flesh, it is the flesh that makes us do thinks, BUT the "quickening" made us alive in spirit... and clean from all sins, our flesh sins, but we are spirit
Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
To some, because they where taught a few one liners from their respective ministers, pastors and reverends take it for granted that they continue to sin, but in fact Christ will have nothing to do with sin other then destroy it, that was his purpose, to wash all sin away, now thats not to say we don't transgress or that sin doesnt dwell in us, that is our flesh... but then again, we are not that flesh are we?
To say that a Christian sins, one would have to throw out many verses in the bible... many, there is no twisting of the veres, to make them say something else, its clear nor saying these verse are not in the greek or that its not what it means
Original Word
Word Origin aJmartiva from Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Hamartia 1:267,44
a. to be without a share in
b. to miss the mark
c. to err, be mistaken
d. to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
e. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
f. that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many
"Well but didn't Hilter claim to be a Christian. 'Catholic' I never once heard Hilter confess that Christ was his Lord in all the speeches he made, have you? But at any rate 'once saved always saved is a falsehood in my reading of the scripture, and is covered in the link (Salvation.)' he might have been with Christ at one time and fallen from grace. Same with anyone you see doing such wicked things."
2 Peter 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Okay so you were a sinner just like the others, and dead... yet Christ was able to save you but He is not able to save them... or... God picked you, and made you love Him, and picked the others to hate Him... or deny Him... what makes you say then that they too can't be saved if they so want, you were JUST like them.
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 387
(4/21/02 12:49 pm) Reply
Re: God hates and loves the World...
Already been covered. See "Of God's Eternal Decrees." etc. etc.
P.S. I wish you'd quite with the three pages of irrelevant bluster with every other post.
Re: God hates and loves the World...
Well to you its bluster... but hey, don't think some don't think yours is bluster too though, I just don't wish to be rude.
Re: God hates and loves the World...
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