In recent years Muslims in the name of Islam and Allah have had much troubles with themselves i.e. Iraq hates Iran, Turkey hates Iraq, Syria has a distaste for Turkey, Saudi Arabia has fought Iraq, Iraq invaded Kuwait, Iran wouldn't help out Kuwait but hates Iraq... the Muslims in India have burned a train load of Hindus, the Muslims in Malaysia have hacked to death many Christians, now im not saying that the other religions haven't had problems in the past, but it seems Muslims for the most part seem to hate everybody... other Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Christians and its death if your an atheist of course... SO the question is, are Muslims and those of Islam more violent then other religions and if so... why?
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 49
(3/28/02 6:26 pm) Reply
Re: Is Islam EVIL?
Speaking generally, I don't know about other religions or even Christianity (when you look at our history, or e.g., Northern Ireland) being less violent, but I will say this much:
When Christians do violent things (without just cause, which is defined all through the OT), then they are doing so _against_ the principles of their religion and the teachings of Christ.
When other religions, Islam in particular, do violent things--it is always justified by their own religion, as long as it was an "infidel" you committed violence against--there are even promioses for serving Allah faithfully by killing at least one infidel.
So, while in practise, all human hearts are evil, in principle there is a big difference between the religions...thus as for why the same types of practices shared between them, I believe its a matter of the heart--it is wicked and decietful above all things, and a heart is something people from all religions have in common. :)
Re: Is Islam EVIL?
So to know a Christain is following his doctine is to see him love even his enemies... and to know a mulsim is following his doctrine is to know he is killing his enemies?
Daaaaa King
syedaliamir
Unregistered User
(4/24/02 5:40 pm) Reply
not at all
no, absolutely not. I'll admit there are problems within the muslim world, but you can't say its because of the religion. You see, dictatorships are all over the middle-east and they do not represent the people. The leaders who say they did it in the name of islam are just using it as an excuse. Now I don't know much about mid-east history, so i'll try to get some muslim bro's to help explain.
Is Islam evil
To be honest recent recorded history shows that if you want to find true barbarity you will find it amongst former Christians (i am being more charitable than you)
the Nazis, Stalin, the inquisition, the american slave trade(did you see roots) look at the bible belt in America.
Australian aborignes, Tasmanian aborigne(extinct!!) American Indians, South Africa, Rhodesia. Your record speaks for itself look not for the mote in your brothers eye rather the plank in your own.
Re: Is Islam evil
Hitler and stalin were not Christains nor was anyone else that raped and murdered... Jesus Preached love, and to love all even your enemies... and to bless them that curse you, and turn the other cheek... Abaaasss.... ISLAM on the other hand teaches to kill those that dont submit to Allah... nice God ya got there... a force of death if ya don't believe in him... hows that work?
syedaliamir
Unregistered User
(4/26/02 9:15 am) Reply
not true
stalin may not have been christian but hitler was. I think he even used the bible to prove the superiority of the "aryan" race. Europe was surely the most hostile place on earth. No other place has there been so many wars. Most of them were not based on religion, but the 30 years war was, the biggest war in the history of the world. Islam does not support killing people who do not become muslim, the Prophet Mohammads(SAW) life was proof of this, as he treated everyone with respect.
April 26, 2002, 12:55 p.m.
Saudi Telethon Host Calls for Enslaving Jewish Women
From the Saudi Information Service.
(WASHINGTON DC) April 26, 2002 …The Saudi Information Agency has obtained a tape by prominent government official cleric Shaikh Saad Al-Buraik calling for enslaving Jewish women. The tape is called "a Monkey Desecrates Mosque," and was delivered in a Riyadh government mosque. The monkey refers to Jews.
Al-Buraik, a Wahhabi cleric, is closely tied to Prince AbdulAziz Ben Fahd, the king's youngest son, and member of the Saudi delegation accompanying Crown Prince Abdullah on his current visit.
Al-Buraik was the host of the two-day long telethon raising funds for Palestinians, which raised $109 million. He is also the host of "Religion and Life," a program on government television Channel One and on MBC television owned by Prince AbdulAziz Ben Fahd. Al-Buraik said on the tape that the money raised would go to Palestinian fighters.
The following are excerpts of the tape:
*************************
On the situation in the Palestinian areas he said:
-----------
Oh Believer, it's a wish, as much as it is pains, but we have hopes that the situation in Palestine will explode. No one dies before their day. How many Muslims have died in Chechnya, Bosnia, Kashmir, and Kosovo!!
Is it too dear to us that among our honorable beloved die as martyrs? Their death dates were written before their birth. That they die as martyrs. "Say even if were at your home, those who will die will walk to their death."
Which is a better choice, to de on your bed, or to die perseverant, fighting, not retreating. Which is better to suffer long before death many days, or taste death quickly?
Which is better to suffer a slow death, or die as a martyr in your way to heaven. A death that you will be forgiven on the first drop of your blood.
When life became perishes we started to drink humiliation many times over.
**************************
Oh Palestinian Authority, don't you see that you are tested once or twice a year? Then you don't learned or repent.
Isn't time yet to wage jihad, and call for holy war. Isn't time that Muslim countries which normalized relations with the Jews to cancel everything that happened from Madrid to Oslo, and Why River, which forbids the supplying of weapons to Muslims in Palestine?
The agreements which canceled jihad, and disassociation from non-Muslims, should all be demolished.
It's a call to close all embassies opened for the Jews in the land of Islam; it is call to end normalization with Israel.
What international resolution that the Jew respected, prepared by Christians.
*****************
On Jews and Christians he said:
----------
People should know that Jews are backed by the Christians, and the battle that we are going through is not with Jews only, but also with those who believe that Allah is a third in a Trinity, and those who said that Jesus is the son of Allah, and Allah is Jesus, the son of Mary.
*************************8
About America he said:
-----------
I am against America until this life ends, until the Day of Judgment;
I am against America even if the stone liquefies
My hatred of America, if part of it was contained in the universe, it would collapse.
She is the root of all evils, and wickedness on earth.
Who else implanted the tyrants in our land, who else nurtured oppression?
Oh Muslim Ummah don't take the Jews and Christians as allies.
*******************
Jewish women as slaves he says:
-------
Muslim Brothers in Palestine, do not have any mercy neither compassion on the Jews, their blood, their money, their flesh. Their women are yours to take, legitimately. God made them yours. Why don't you enslave their women? Why don't you wage jihad? Why don't you pillage them?
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 442
(4/26/02 8:55 pm) Reply
Re: Muslems give us reason to believe them evil
Jehu is exactly right on the mark if you ask me. Christians can condemn the acts of a Stalin or a Hitler, or the crusades or the inquisition, etc. just because we stand on the authority of a Scripture, which gives us a basis for that condemnation.
Muslims do not have any basis for judging a "Holy War" when their "Scripture" advocates a "by the sword" apologetics and has been used it throughout history to advance the cause of Islam.
The Nazis can simply say to the Muslims as they said at Neremberg trials; "are you judging us because we are wrong; or because we lost?"
What can the Muslim say? Isn't that the mentality that is advocated by teaching children to kill "infidels" who are against Allah?
Now, granted, there are extreem groups on all sides. But when the Quran itself says that it is a good thing to spite those at the legs, etc. who are against Islam, what basis can the Muslim argue from to condemn the same practise by people who have claimed to be Christian?
Only their own opinions, as far as I can, which don't amount to too awful much in the grand scheme of things.
Islam
You are judging Islam but what you see on Tv and what the media feeds you. Do u even know how important Jesus Christ is in Islam? Have you even checked our beliefs of Jesus Christ? Are you saying that because of what you see is going In Palestine? What do you expect the people to do just sit there and wait for their turn to die. Shouldn't they defend their homeland and their families? Wouldn't you do the same if someone attacked you and killed your family? Look at what they are doing in Behtlehem they captured the Church of Nativity and they killed a priest and shot four nuns. Shouldn't you protect eh land where Jesus Christ was born. THat's the difference between us is that Muslims try to defend their land not just to be violent (that's how the media links Islam not to violence) but because we care about our religion and we try to defend it as much as possible). YOu can't deny that Hitler was Christian and let's not forget about the crusades.
Just do your research about Isla, and don't judge it by the media learn that's the only way to understand the truth.
Thank you
aliamir Registered User
Posts: 1
(4/27/02 2:30 pm) Reply
reference?
can you please give a reference to where it says in the Quran to kill non-believers?
Re: reference?
Hitler was NOT a Christian. That is a lie.
I am not judging Islam, God will do that. I am seeing Palestinians strapping bombs on their children and sending them to kill Jews.
Killing is not what Jesus preached. Jesus preached love and forgiveness.
If someone murdered my family, I would forgive them, as Jesus preached. Look at what Lot had to endure. Why should I expect any less than what God permitted to happen to Lot?
Far too many people kill in the name of God. That is wrong, whether it be Muslim or Christian.
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 459
(4/27/02 5:08 pm) Reply
Re: reference?
"YOu can't deny that Hitler was Christian and let's not forget about the crusades."
Someone was sleeping through the class again.
"Christians can condemn the acts of a Stalin or a Hitler, or the crusades or the inquisition, etc. just because we stand on the authority of a Scripture, which gives us a basis for that condemnation.
Muslims do not have any basis for judging a "Holy War" when their "Scripture" advocates a "by the sword" apologetics and has been used it throughout history to advance the cause of Islam."
It's not the fact that some people who call themselves Muslims do evil things. Some people who call themselves Christians do evil things, too. The fact is that Christians have a basis for condemning those people for what they do in the name of God, Muslims do not.
Quran 5.38 As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from God, for their crime: and God is Exalted in power.
Quran 7:70 They said: "Comest thou to us, that we may worship God alone, and give up the cult of our fathers? bring us what thou threatenest us with, if so be that thou tellest the truth!"
7:71 He said: "Punishment and wrath have already come upon you from your Lord: dispute ye with me over names which ye have devised - ye and your fathers,- without authority from God? then wait: I am amongst you, also waiting."
7:72 We saved him and those who adhered to him. By Our mercy, and We cut off the roots of those who rejected Our signs and did not believe.
Quran 9:31 They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
9:32 Fain would they extinguish God's light with their mouths, but God will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).
9:33 It is He Who hath sent His Apostle with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
Does that mean only Palestinians are evil? No.
Unfortunately, Christians have done some very shameful things in the name of religion, also.
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(4/28/02 2:44 pm) Reply
Re: MonkeeSage
786/110
Asalamoalikum !
The verses quoted by MonkeeSage are presented in a very biased manner.
First off, (Quran 9:31 to 33) in these verses, quoted here, Allah (God) is telling us that the religion of truth will rule no matter what. I dont understand what's so unclear in that. These verses are just saying that God will make his apostle and religion the most powerful. HE IS NOT commanding anyone to stand up and start killing innocent people. Quran says "Fight with those who fight with you!" ... period. Muslims have the strongest reason to condemn acts of terrorism. I dont think its right way to implicate the verses of Quran without the complete knowledge. 'The truth will prevail and the oppressors will be the ultimate losers, whether they like to accept it or not'... thats what these verses say.
About (Quran 7:70 to 7:72). The last verse has been left incomplete while quoting. 7:72 ends by saying:
"and ofcourse (God knows) they were never going to believe in (truth)".
So, thats why they were targetted. Again, Allah is talking about HIMSELF. HE KNEW that they were corrupt and wrongdoers. He IS NOT asking muslims or anyone to decide on their own that this person is wrong and I am right; or this person will never accept the truth. Allah knows what lies in our hearts and only HE can make such crucial decisions. For rest of the world, "Fight against those only who fight against you!" Thats the true essence of the jihad. JIHAD IS NOT TO stand up and start killing unbelievers, when they are not causing you any harm. And if someone does that, he is going against the words of Quran.
I hope it was helpful.
Regards,
Asad Ali.
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 468
(4/28/02 7:13 pm) Reply
Re: MonkeeSage
Fine. I have not studied Quran, and I grant that the passages do not specifically tell you to kill anyone, etc.
My point is that I can show you where the Christian Scriptures condemn the type of actions of a Hitler or Stalin; can you show me the passage in Al-Quran where you can do the same? Isn't it true that if there was a dictator like Hitler, who was a follower of Isla, and who fought for Islam he would be considered a hero and not a convict?
What basis do you have to condem anyone who does good for Allah, no matter what it is?...do you believe in Kismit...if it was meant to be, and all is Allah's will, how could they be wrong?
-J
S.D.G
syedaliamir
Unregistered User
(4/28/02 8:49 pm) Reply
none
this isn't a reply to the questions, i just wanted to point this out.
the war of 1967 is not considered to be over by the palestines. The vietnamese trained their children from the 1920's (when they were fighting the french) all the way through to the end of the war against the americans, in the 70's. Another side note, the vietnamese had massive arms support from china and the soviet union, while palestine doesn't have anywhere near that type of support.
Re: Is Islam evil
Islam
Re: reference?
Re: MonkeeSage
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