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MonkeeSage
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Posts: 351
(4/20/02 4:33 pm)
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Is Mary the woman in Rev. 12?
We answer no, she is not, the woman is Israel.

How is this proved?

Rev. 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Gen. 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

Notice, Joseph's dream depicts 11 stars, because Joseph himself is the one being bowed to (his star was him, thus it wasn't being depicted). Jesus is who Joseph was prefiguring in the dream, and thus in Rev. all 12 stars (tribes) are seen in the woman's crown.

Thus, there is no doubt that the Holy Spirit was referring to the dream of Joseph, prefiguring Jesus--who from Israel, after the flesh (Rom. 9:5)--and not referring to Mary.

Many Roman Catholics will deny this rendering as being "allegorical" and thus as incorrect, claiming that we must take the "literal" rendering of the one who actually gave birth to the "man child" (Jesus), that being Mary.

This is a flawed charge from the outset. The Bible speaks allegorically in many places, especially in messianic prophecy, there is no violence to the text to interpret it as it was meant to be interpreted, the harm comes from trying to form the text into a preconceived mold.

Secondly, a stricly literal rendering doesn't fit the facts of history. Unless they have some material that the rest of us are unaware of, Mary didn't flee into the wilderness after giving birth (v. 6), nor was she given wings (v. 14!), nor chased into a hole in the earth by a flood that came out of a dragon-snake's mouth (vss. 15-16).

We can plainly see that it is national Israel that is in view here, and by type, the Church of God--the Israel of God (Gal. 6:16), as v. 17 makes clear. Mary was the last thing in mind when this text was penned by the Holy Spirit, through John. It is simply a case of eisegesis to find Mary here.

-J

S.D.G

YeshaYahu ch9v6
Registered User
Posts: 1
(9/3/02 5:12 am)
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Re: Is Mary the woman in Rev. 12?
The interpetation that the woman in Revelation chapter 12 is Mary presents problems for other doctrines catholics hold dear.

For example, in Revelation chapter 12 verse 2, the woman is experiencing birth pain. Where is the origin of birth pain? In Genesis 3:15-16, it started after Eve sinned. Because of her sin, birth pain has been an judgment to every woman. There goes Mary's sinlessness.
Catholics has even attached a title to Mary which is entirely unbiblical and quite shows thier confussion. The title is that Mary is the new Eve. But Adam came first, then Eve, but Mary was before Yehoshua and not after. From evidence in the Bible, Mary is not the second Eve, Yehoshua's church is the second Eve.

Then in Revelation 12:17, the woman has children. A catholic will try to defend his or her doctrine of Mary being a perpetual virgin by saying that she is the mother of the church. There a few scriptures that rattles that justification.
Yehoshua said in Matthew 12:48-50 that HIS mother, brothers, and sisters are they that hear the word of God and do it.
Paul says in Galatians, "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." [Galatians 4:26 ]

Catholic's own interpretation of Revelation 12 causes problems to their other fundamentally believed doctrines.

"For the Son of Man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." [Luke 9:56] The Truth About Islam: www.answering-islam.org www.geocities.com/queball23/ISALLAHREALLYGODORELOHIM.html www.islamreview.com The Truth About Catholicism www.ntrmin.org

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