CallMeBabe
Unregistered User
(3/28/02 4:02 pm) Reply
Jesus, son of Mary
Muslims believe Jesus as a Great Prophet. Here are a few verses from Quran about Jesus.
2/87 We gave Moses the scripture, and subsequent to him we sent other messengers, and we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it not a fact that every time a messenger went to you with anything you disliked, your ego caused you to be arrogant? Some of them you rejected, and some of them you killed.
3/45 The angels said, "O Mary, GOD gives you good news: a Word from Him whose name is 'The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He will be prominent in this life and in the Hereafter, and one of those closest to Me.'
3/55 Thus, GOD said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.
3/59 The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
3/84 Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."
4/157 And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him-they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.
4/163 We have inspired you, as we inspired Noah and the prophets after him. And we inspired Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, the Patriarchs, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And we gave David the Psalms.
4/171 O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.
5/110 GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit, to enable you to speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult. I taught you the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. Recall that you created from clay the shape of a bird by My leave, then blew into it, and it became a live bird by My leave. You healed the blind and the leprous by My leave, and revived the dead by My leave. Recall that I protected you from the Children of Israel who wanted to hurt you, despite the profound miracles you had shown them. The disbelievers among them said, 'This is obviously magic.'
5/116 GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?' " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.
9/30 The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.
42/13 He decreed for you the same religion decreed for Noah, and what we inspired to you, and what we decreed for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: "You shall uphold this one religion, and do not divide it." The idol worshipers will greatly resent what you invite them to do. GOD redeems to Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself only those who totally submit.
43/63 When Jesus went with the proofs, he said, "I bring to you wisdom, and to clarify some of the matters in which you dispute. You shall reverence GOD and obey me.
57/27 Subsequent to them, we sent our messengers. We sent Jesus the son of Mary, and we gave him the Injeel (Gospel), and we placed in the hearts of his followers kindness and mercy. But they invented hermitism which we never decreed for them. All we asked them to do was to uphold the commandments approved by GOD. But they did not uphold the message as they should have. Consequently, we gave those who believed among them their recompense, while many of them were wicked.
61/14 O you who believe, be GOD's supporters, like the disciples of Jesus, son of Mary. When he said to them, "Who are my supporters towards GOD," they said, "We are GOD's supporters." Thus, a group from the Children of Israel believed, and another group disbelieved. We helped those who believed against their enemy, until they won.
Monotheism is the only message brought by all the prophets of God.
There are no gods, but The God.
And he has no partner in his works.
Peace! (Salaam - Shalom)
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 48
(3/28/02 6:19 pm) Reply
Re: Jesus, son of Mary
Jesus, son of Mariam, you mean? That's what Mohammed said, anyways, and he can't be wrong--right?
That is one thing that only Islamic prophets have taught. Jews and Christians have gone with history, that Jesus is not the son of Moses' sister, but of a woman named Mary who descended from King David.
Ali-Yusuf and Pickthal seem to want to cover the mistake, but Shakir (Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an) is honest in translation.
AL-MAEDA 5:17
AL-BAQARA 2:87
Al-AHZAB 33:7
CallMeBabe
Unregistered User
(3/28/02 8:43 pm) Reply
Lies
I used Reshad Khalifa's translation...
Jesus, son of mary (Meryem in Arabic) is a clear verse in Quran.
I believe you dont disagree with this.
What Quran also says Mary, sister of Aaron...
Word Miriam never appeared in Quran...
CallMeBabe
Unregistered User
(3/29/02 1:40 am) Reply
By the way Arabic Gospels says MERYEM, too...
It is just the same name spelled and pronounciated in arabic.
Re: By the way Arabic Gospels says MERYEM, too...
CallmeBabe you write: 3/45 The angels said, "O Mary, GOD gives you good news: a Word from Him whose name is 'The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He will be prominent in this life and in the Hereafter, and one of those closest to Me.'
('The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary." ALONE shows He was above all other prophets. Better check up on the meaning and title Messiah, by scripture. Your book is flawed.)
3/84 Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."
(Now that I'm sure you have found out what Messiah means,"right?", surely you can see how this is flawed. How could you not make a distinction from Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and the Messiah. That's utter absurdity! That or you and Mohammed don't know the true meaning of Messiah.)
4/157 And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him-they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.
(Man your book is flawed... how did He atone for sin then if no sacrifice was made! The Messiah was to atone for sins... explain how Christ did this then? If not with His blood.?)
CallMeBabe PLEASE address these issues and then I will show you the rets of the flaws in you book.
Daaaaa King
CallMeBabe
Unregistered User
(4/1/02 2:45 am) Reply
Quran doesnt have to support biblical beliefs :)
Or does it?
Why should the Word of God support a corrupted book?
Why MUST God care about the meanings pagans (christians) load to the word messiah?
Messiah just means THE ONE WHO IS CHOSEN.
Jesus was Messiah. A chosen one. He was a prophet. Messiah of Jews.
Atonement is not a Quranic belief either, Quran, like old testament, unlike the new testament, teaches everyone is responsible from his own deeds. There is no original sin belief in Quran. Therefore Jesus (peace be upon him) wasnt killed for the other's sins.
He must be dead by natural reasons after leavnig Jerusalem.
So please DONT expect Quran to be in accordance with bible. It is NOT.
A great example would be :
Bible calls Solomon an IDOLWORSHIPPER. (1.Kings)
Quran, calls the ones who claim Solomon is an idolworshippoers are the one who follow the path of SATAN.
2/102 They pursued what the devils taught concerning Solomon's kingdom. Solomon, however, was not a disbeliever, but the devils were disbelievers. They taught the people sorcery, and that which was sent down through the two angels of Babel, Haroot and Maroot. These two did not divulge such knowledge without pointing out: "This is a test. You shall not abuse such knowledge." But the people used it in such evil schemes as the breaking up of marriages. They can never harm anyone against the will of GOD. They thus learn what hurts them, not what benefits them, and they know full well that whoever practices witchcraft will have no share in the Hereafter. Miserable indeed is what they sell their souls for, if they only knew.
Re: Quran doesnt have to support biblical beliefs :)
Uhhhh.... atonement not in the Old Testament...
so Yowm Kippur (Day of Atonement)...? Levitical sacrifices of goats and lambs?
Lev. 23:26-31 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people. And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.
Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
"...please DONT expect Quran to be in accordance with bible. It is NOT."
So, it doesn't really confirm the previous revelation, as it claims? It curses the previous revelation and says it comes from devils?
-J
S.D.G
CallMeBabe
Unregistered User
(4/1/02 3:41 am) Reply
Sorry about atonement
I meant somebody is dead for my sins. I am not a native speaker so didnt know the whole meaning.
Quran says it confirms the previous scriptures called TORAH and INJEEL. So it confirm those scriptures are given to those prophets.
But it also says these scriptures are corrupted.
Those scriptures were originally from The God but men changed them to suit their own needs/beliefs, etc.
Jesus was a submitter. He submitted to God alone. Like moses, mohammed and others.
But todays christians are mostly pagans unlike jesus and his message is corrupted.
Even there is nothing like GOSPEL according to Jesus..
Quran tells, WE GAVE INJEEL TO JESUS...
This may be the Q Gospel that nobody has.
I dont know. BUt I know for sure, Quran doesnt support much of the bible.
Extreme cruelties (burning alive, stoning to death, etc), absurdities (cutting off hand of a women just because he saved her husband by crushing other man's testicles), contradictions, scientific problems, racism, etc cannot be the word of God.
At least author of Quran says The God is MOST MERCIFUL and MOST COMPASSIONATE.
Author of bible has no mercy.
He commands to kill women and children, young and elderly, etc.
Re: Sorry about atonement
The whole Hebrew concept of atonment is one life for another, only animals were ordained in the Old Testament, but they looked foward to the ultimate atonment sacrifice--Messiah.
"...these scriptures [TORAH, sic.] are corrupted...his message is corrupted."
Prove it.
-J
S.D.G
CallMeBabe
Unregistered User
(4/1/02 2:51 pm) Reply
Read it...
When you see contradictions, scientific errors, absurdities, etc.
You will understand it is corrupted.
If you are not blind... Or NOT closing your eyes deliberately
CallMeBabe
Unregistered User
(4/1/02 6:52 pm) Reply
Stupid claims about ISLAM in that site
Out of context verses :
those who are not Muslims will go to hell (3:13; 19:49).
FACT : This claims is valid for christians that says if you dont believe Jesus is god you will lose, HOWEVER : Quran is the ONLY book that promises salvation to its disbelievers.
2/62 Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
"Islamic law prohibits the touching of the physical Arabic Qur'an (and formal, but not casual, recitation) unless the person he is in a state of purity which corresponds to the greater of Ablution... it is a priest group Chin that every Moslem must commit at least 12 vs. or lines of the Qur'an to memory."2
This is not ISLAM but a christian like sect of islam called SUNNISM. 90% of muslims are either sunni or shia (Taliban is sunni, Iranians are shiaites). God of Quran condemns dividing into sects. Quran is nothing but paper and ink.
Sunnis are shiaites apply something called HADITH (Talmud to Jews is Hadith to Sunnis). Most of hadiths are passed to islam from Jewish, Christian, Hindu and other converts. 90% are contradict quran. Following hadith (any word other than God's word) as religion is considered IDOLWORSHIPPING by Quran.
"Since Muhammad could not read or write, his companions wrote down what he said."
FACT: Mohammed was an UMMI. A word which is wrongly translated, deliberately, as ILLITERATE. But UMMI is just the opposite of PEOPLE OF THE BOOK, people who believes in bible, e.g. Christians and Jews are the people of the book. Other arabs are UMMIs.
Illiteracy of Mohammed is a stupid sunni belief that lowers him to s idiot who cannot learn how to read despite the fact that FIRST commandment of the Quran is READ! (You can learn to read arabic in 23 years easily
Most of the verses claimed to be contradicting are taken from a sunni translation full of paranthesis and non existing words. So as you see they also change the God's words as the christians did in the past.
A very strange thing I noticed on these pages is that:
The Christian author SHAMELESSLY criticize Quran's verses about woman (of course again extremely wrong translations) after forgetting his own book, ie Bible
One simple example:
Women submit to their husbands in the bible.
Men and Women submit to GOD in Quran otherwise is considered IDOLWORSHIPPING
Peace.
iHs Registered User
Posts: 19
(4/1/02 8:13 pm) Reply
Re: Stupid claims about ISLAM in that site
In the year 610 (believed to be the 26th of Ramadan), while in a cave on Mt. Hirah, which is now called Mount Jabal Nur, Muhammad said that the angel Gabriel appeared to him and commanded him to recite (96:1-19). From that point on, Muhammad received revelations up to the time of his death, 23 years later in 632. In these encounters with the angel Gabriel, sometimes Muhammad would see the angel, other times he would only hear him, and at others he only heard the sound of a bell through which the words of the angel came.
Since Muhammad could not read or write, his companions wrote down what he said. These recitations were copied onto a variety of materials: papyrus, flat stones, palm leaves, shoulder blades and ribs of animals, pieces of leather and wooden boards.
Muhammad was inded, and it is well known, illiterate. It is doubted he penned anu of it himself.
The Koran also contains many biblical figures (Abraham, David, Moses, and Jesus) as well as non-biblical figures. However, some of the accounts of biblical characters are different than the Bible.
Hmmm, different.
Most interesting also.......in the front of the koran i read, it says that muhammad was given the koran by the angel gabriel.......
So has anybody ever actually heard from allah? I know muhammad didn't.
Re: Read it...
When you see contradictions, scientific errors, absurdities, etc.
You will understand it is corrupted.
If you are not blind... Or NOT closing your eyes deliberately
As the GOD I believe in is INFALLIBLE.
Quran 5.14 From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will God show them what it is they have done.
Quran 5 82.Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
[21:08] <KingJehu> Quran Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
(Which one is it!!)
Daaaaa King
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 78
(4/1/02 11:20 pm) Reply
CallmeBabe...
No, you gave me a link to a TRANSLATION.
That is not what you said.
You said TORAH (Hebrew) and the Gospels (Greek) are corrupted.
Prove it.
-J
S.D.G
CallMeBabe
Unregistered User
(4/1/02 11:59 pm) Reply
Old and New Testaments are enough evidence that they are cor
Old and New Testaments are enough evidence that they are corrupted.
CallMeBabe
Unregistered User
(4/2/02 12:09 am) Reply
Alleged contradictions in Quran
Quran 5.14 From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will God show them what it is they have done.
Quran 5 82.Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
[21:08] <KingJehu> Quran Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
I did not see any contradiction among these verses. Even if I literaly read what you have written.
5:14 says God take a covenant from xtians and they forgot some of it. And as a result God put hatred btwn xtians (Dont tell me there is no hatered btwn sects)
5:82 (and in fact 83) talks about xtians that when reading quran cry as they know that it is from God. So they are closer to muslims.
21:08 (and 2:62) promises salvation to those who believe in God, judgement day and do good deeds.
Where is contradiction? If you tell me what you mean, I will try to resolve it, if I cannot, I will stop believing in Quran (can you dare to do the samething about Bible?)
ADDITIONAL NOTE :
In fact in the original arabic quran, the word CHRISTIAN never occurs.
NASRANI (Supporter) is used to represent xtians as disciples were the supporters of God.
Not everyone that says "I am xtian" is xtian (nasrani) according to quran.
Quran calls worshippers of Mary and Jesus as pagans (disbelievers), also it calls trinitarians, too.
I have a xtian friend who doesnt believe the deity of Jesus. He thinks he is just a man and prophet (and messiah) Because he claims that those verses in John (I, and father and Holy Ghost are one) are added to the bible around 1500. So he is not a pagan according to quran in that sense (he may also have other beliefs that I dont know that can be considered as pagan beliefs.)
So NOT ALL CHRISTIANS are pagans (most of them are)
NOT ALL MUSLIMS are monotheist (most of them arent
NOT All CHRISTIANs are NASRANIs (most of them arent)
Event the name CHRISTIAN implies a HUMAN CULT like BUDDHISM...
Relax, and take care.
Peace
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 81
(4/2/02 12:25 am) Reply
Re: Alleged contradictions in Quran
No, they are not, I read them and study the ancient manuscripts and see not corruption--of course there are transmission errors, but since we have so many thousands of ancient manuscripts it is EASY to reconstruct the original reading. I will grant you that .01% of the whole may be lost forever, but even that does not show anything about the 99.9% we STILL have. That 99.9% is uncorrupted.
Just making the claim is not enough.
Prove it. If you cannot, then don't make the claim.
Re: Alleged contradictions in Quran
Quran 5.14 From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will God show them what it is they have done.
so we estranged them?
Quran 5 82.Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians?
YOU really don't see the contradictions??
And soon will God show them what it is they have done. ?
because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.? (There either Callme?)
Quran 5.51 ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust. (THIS one either Callme?)
ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors:
Quran Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
twice it says we okay, and twice it says we be bad LOL... which one it be?
[In fact in the original arabic quran, the word CHRISTIAN never occurs.]
You'll have to take that up with the Qu'ran translators... though I sure somehow its the Christian fault they didn't get it right, and please do try not to use xtian, some find it as offensive as you would Is-lame
Its not what you think, or Mohammed thinks, or even what I think that counts, it matter what Christ thinks.
Re: Quran doesnt have to support biblical beliefs :)
Quote: "Why MUST God care about the meanings pagans (christians) load to the word messiah?"
---CallMeBabe
CallMeBabe, can't help but notice your usage of wording in referring to Christians as "pagans". What does your book say about pagans?
"Fight and slay the pagans [i.e. infidels ] wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war." [9:5 ]
Quote: "It [the quran ] also says that those scriptures are corrupted>"
CallMeBabe, where does it say that in the quran?
"For the Son of Man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." (Luke 9:56)
The Truth About Islam:
Re: Quran doesnt have to support biblical beliefs :)
Stupid claims about ISLAM in that site
Old and New Testaments are enough evidence that they are cor
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