Question about Boromir
Roleplaying is really a fun thing, and it brings up ever new questions. Here is another one that came up:
Is Boromir married?
By the time of the War of the Ring Boromir is roughly 40 years old, which means well past the usual age for marriage, especially given the fact that as the heir he would be also responsible to continue the line of Stewards. (Faramir is a bit more lucky, and should have less pressure to have a son, and of course he is a bit younger.) In the LOTR, however, there is no mention of a wife. That of course doesn't have to mean there is none, but it leave a lot of room for speculation.
Is there any information outside the books concerning this? And if not, what do you think?
Faramir is only five years younger than Boromir, he was a grown man too ;)
As far as I know, there is no mention to Boromir being married or not, but it is commonly assumed he was not. Why? The reason is simple enough: there is no mention in LOTR (nor in the Appendix) to his supposed wife or wedding -- and even if he had a daughter (not to mention a son!), be certain Tolkien would have mentioned it, even if for the sake to write of Faramir's feelings toward his niece or his sister-in-law. On the contrary, Tolkien mentions in one of his Letters (can't recall the #, sorry), of Faramir's world, without women, motherless and sisterless; surely he would have appreciated to have a sister-in-law? And since Boromir and Faramir are *very* alike, I bet he would have liked his brother's life and, after to know of his death, he would have hurried to check how were she doing, even in half of Mordor had been waiting for him at the very gates of Minas Tirith.
Oddly, it happens the same with Theodred, Theoden's heir. Considering Tolkien mentioned even Eomer's parents (even Theoden's parents!), had Boromir and Theodred been married, he would have, doubtless, metioned it too.
Now as for the age of the brothers: they are dúnedain and supposedly they would live more than common men; Faramir died being 99. So, it would not be a nonsense if they married later?. When Denethor married at 46, he is said to have married late, but surely "common" men would marry being 25 or so; 46 is, indeed, late, even for a gondorian. (As a note: when Arathorn was asked at the age of 56 to marry Gilraen, he is said to be merely "of full age". Gilraen's father objected, because he forsaw that Arathorn would be "short-lived" -he was killed four years later, at 60- and also because Gilraen, at twenty, "had not reached the age at which the women of the Dunedain were accustomed to marry." But ok, arnorians lived more than gondorians, it seems...). On the other hand, Denethor, who is 88 at the time of the War of the Ring, is said to have been "aged before his time by his contest with the will of Sauron". So, it seems that both in Gondor and among the Rangers in the north, those families that maintain a purer Numenorean descent still managed to live over 100, possibly even to 200; that is, at least half again if not twice as long as normal men in Middle Earth.
I think that Boromir, being the High Warden of the White Tower and the Captain-General of Gondor, was very busy and war-focused (as Faramir was in Ithilien) to care to take a wife and sire a couple of children; since his father married late too (and Denethor eyed his son as invincible, sort of -- and Boromir thought the same about himself), he would think Boromir had time. I don't find it odd, it happened the same to some other great kings of the past, such as Alexander Magnus, Richard the Lion-heart or Julius Caesar (ok, Alexander and Richard were homosexuals but it little mattered, others were too and sired children). And, again, in the same Middle-Earth we have Theodred as an example of "there is no need to hurry, war is more important, time we'll have".
It is said in the "Laws and Customs of the Eldar" that Noldor did not marry and sire children in wartime (well, sometimes they did :P); surely the edain did the same, for they copied most of the Noldor's laws and adapted them to the edain houses. Perhaps, so many years after, such a thing was marked in the people's memory and, even unwittingly, they did as their ancestors would and, doubtless, the years before the War of the Ring were a dark time.
Re: Question about Boromir Of course I know that Faramir is only five years younger than Boromir, but that can be enough to (along with the "being only second" to take some of the pressure off him.
I have been thinking about it a bit, and while the thing about not having children during times of war sounds good - Gondor has been in a constant state of alert for many years, Gondor would quickly become uninhabited.
But actually, I think that this obvious tardiness in terms of marriage and children might be an outward sign of the decline of Gondor.
Quote:I think that this obvious tardiness in terms of marriage and children might be an outward sign of the decline of Gondor.
The whole Middle-Earth was declining by the time of the War of the Ring, only the hobbits seem to be more or less immune to the mar of Arda (and Tom Bombadil, of course! ), despite I think that those who joined Saruman would give a hint that the mar had reached already The Shire.
Re: Question about Boromir
Oh, I'm so happy to know about how old Boromir was. I thought about 40 but was going more by instinct than knowledge. I always assumed he was unmarried since I would think (for all reasons previously stated) that it would matter a lot to him and Faramir if he had his own family.
I really have always thought the rather low birth rate (except among Hobbits) was an odd thing for Tolkien to decide, since it doesn't seem to fit the culture of Gondor and Rohan, at least. The only explanation my imagination came up with was that it reflected the general decline in Middle-earth. Which means that among the other changes that would mark the Fourth Age would be a lot more marriages and children! That's a happy thought.
Question: Are we to assume that if Tolkien only mentions the name of one child each to Faramir and Eowyn and Eomer and Lothiriel, that they each only had one child? Would it be AU to assume that they had more children who weren't specifically mentioned? After all, Tolkien didn't always give complete family trees, not even the names of Aragorn and Arwen's 5 daughters.
Re: Question about Boromir
Tolkien cared a lot Family Trees; in fact he worked them very, very much. Yet, he cared Fourth Age very little, hence he didn't waste his time working Aragorn, Faramir and Eomer's offspring since, more or less, there was nothing more to say and, to close the whole circle of Eä, which started when Melkor sought power for himself alone and marred Arda, only was left to wait for the Dagor Dagorath and the ultimate defeat of Morgoth (and the healing of the World). Till then, it would be but a matter to see the race of men declining and weakening (as had happened before) and the rest of races (elves, hobbits and dwarves) fading definitely.
And, as always, I'm being carried away
Now, as for your question: It would deppend of the person you ask for. For example: many people would claim that to rp or to write fanfics, even if you follow closer the books, is to play/write an AU, since Tolkien did not write it and the words, feelings, thoughts, etc. of the chars would not be necessarily according with Tolkien's ideas. From this point, to the AUs where nazguls have silmarils and Aragorn's is but the brother of Mary Sue Queen of Arda, there is a whole gap.
My personal opinion regarding this: Hmm. I don't like additions to the family trees, unless they are assumed. I mean, there is a lot of kings/chieftains/etc that we know they were married since they had children; or even Aragorn's unnamed daughters. So, they existed. As for the rest... *shrugs*. But I am very biased here, I agree, after a few years fighting Mary Sues who fancied to be related to the more important chars of LOTR In the end, the single mention to this, and I get sick, so, I can't be impartial here; but under the rule "Tolkien didn't say that... X and Y and Z" I have seen all you can think (hey, Tolkien never said Legolas had no girl... go figure)
Nolen
Btw, where is it stated that they had five daughters? Any footnote in some volume of HoME related to the WotR? I mean, I personally never heard of it and since I find it pretty surprising (to have so many children and, among them, only one son, considering both Aragorn and Arwen come from families where boys best girls and how -- and considering Númenor, Arnor and Gondor's history, I guess Aragorn would be a little worried at this ) I would love to read what Tolkien said about. If this is a Canon thing, that is, and not a Fanon.
Re: Question about Boromir
Tolkien did care a lot about family trees, and those that I he did I would not touch (oh I still shudder when thinking about a roleplay including Aragorn's sister..)
Some, however are obviously incomplete, like the mising names of wives, or the family of somo lesser characters.
It's kind of a delicate subject. I don't like to think it a "free for all", like 'Tolkien didn't specifically say it wasn't so', but in some care some assumptions can be made. For one, I think it highly unlikely for Aragorn and Faramir to only have one child,
(in Faramir's case I think we only know about "at least one child" because his grandson was mentioned somewhere), so there are some holes that could be filled.
(Indeed, I never really read about those 5 daughters, just heard it from someone. It might be interesting to find out where it's coming from)
Re: Question about Boromir
I have been checking the books this last weekend and I couldn't find any mention to five daughters (hence my interest to know if that's Canon or Fanon) :O
Re: Question about Boromir
Well, you got me to wondering. I was sure I had seen reference somewhere to their 5 daughters, but now all I can find is a line in Appendix A (Iv): The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, in the third to last paragraph: "Then she said farewell to Eldarion, and to her daughters..."
This can only mean Aragorn and Arwen's daughters, but how many I can't find a reference to. Edited by: Gwaihiril at: 7/27/05 8:51 am
Re: Question about Boromir
Well, that at least tells us that Aragorn has a son and two or more daughters (unless we assume Arwen did something less than honorable, ahem). And since there is no mention of additional sons, and I am sure they would have been mentioned it seems that Eldarion was indeed the only boy among sisters.
Edited by: Lenove at: 7/27/05 1:10 pm
Re: Question about Boromir
Ah yes, that's for sure (99%?) since all the mentions (Tolkien's mentions, that is) to Aragorn's offspring are the same: Eldarion and sisters, being Eldarion the firstborn.
That brings up another question. Does anyone know how old Eldarion was when Aragorn died? I haven't been able to find this out and am curious. (Is it correct that Aragorn was 87 or 88 when he became king?) Edited by: Gwaihiril at: 7/28/05 10:29 pm
Re: Question about Boromir
Eldarion's date of birth is not exactly known, but the Encyclopedia of Arda has this to say about it:
For such an important character, almost nothing is known of Eldarion's life or deeds. Almost the only definite statement about him came from his father, who commented that he was 'full-ripe for kingship' in The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen (given in Appendix A I (v) to The Lord of the Rings). Aragorn's ancestors had tended to take over their duties as Chieftain at about the age of ninety: if Eldarion followed this pattern, this would place his birth in the years around IV 30.
Aragorn was born in TA 2931, so by my calculation he would have been 90 at the Beginning of the Fourth Age.
Re: Question about Boromir
Aragorn was 88 when he became king (born in 2931, crowned in 3019).
As Andranneth says, it is unknown when Eldarion was born; I personally think that all the children would be born after 20 FA at least, surely later and, besides, knowing that he passed away in 220 FA, well, had he been born before and then would have lived more than Aragorn, and for some reason, I don't think it came to happen.