The use of Sindarin in Gondor
This is a matter that I have run across very often, especially since I started reading Fanfic. But it came up in roleplaying games, too. And it all actualyl led to me being a biy confused and no longer sure what is right now.
The question that usually comes up is: Does Boromir/Faramir speak/understand elvish?
Myself, I usually understood the passage from "The Two towers"
To his amazement, as he listened Frodo became aware that it was the Elven-Tongue that they spoke, or one but little different.
in that way that although it is no longer a commonly used language, among a certain part of Gondor (those of the decendants of Numenor where the heritage is not fully diluted yet) it still exists. And since the Lords of the Realm should be of that lineage (and it is actually stated about Denethor: "The blood of numenor runs ture in him"), I would have thought that yes, they would be among those who speak that language.
From letter #144 to Naomi Mitchinson. 25 April 1954.
"The Westron or C.S. is supposed to be derived from the Mannish Adunaic, language of the Númenóreans, spreading from the Númenórean Kingdoms in the days of the Kings, and especially from Gondor, where it remains spoken in nobler and rather more antique style (a style also usually adopted by the Elves when they use this language). But all the names in Gondor, except for a few of supposedly prehistoric origin, are of Elvish form, since the Númenórean nobility still used an Elvish language, or could. This was because they had been allies of the Elves in the First Age, and had for that reason been granted the Atlantis isle of Númenor."
(Italics are Tolkien's; typos, if any, are mines).
Quote:The question that usually comes up is: Does Boromir/Faramir speak/understand elvish?
So, the reply would be yes. Especially Faramir, since, even being a warrior, he was too the scholar type who would spend hours and hours in Minas Tirith's library, learning, hence his friendship to Mithrandir.
Re: The use of Sindarin in Gondor
Oh, it's so good to know that at least one person on this earth agrees with me on that. I have had a lot of roleplays where I found that my way of playing Faramir there was not appreciated.
Re: The use of Sindarin in Gondor
Well, aside Mr. Tolkien himself, I agree with you too ( ).
I play/have played Faramir too, and I know what you mean Well, when someone complained, I posted the info I had about the use of sindarin in Gondor etc etc to shush them. And if this failed too (it's awesome to see how many people can say: "Whatever Tolkien said..." or "It little matters what Tolkien says about because..." or "In the movies...") then I knew that that game was not my game
Re: The use of Sindarin in Gondor
Hm. It drives me nuts when people just gloss over what Tolkien himself said! He wrote the books and created the whole world of the books, so what he said *is* the canon.
Of course, in AU we can do whatever we want, but when we go AU we know we are doing it. But in canon discussions, we have to go by what Mr. Tolkien said.
For instance, a friend and I have a story in which Denethor did not sire Faramir. But do we call this canon? NO!
1) Many people play/write AUs without to realize it fully (just look at all the half-elves, females & warriors around the net -- or hobbit warriors!) or even if they know, if they are told, they go mad at you.
2) They are poorly built. And they have so many things left that soon they are ruined (and, as a consequence, people go mad too XD).
I myself have written/rped many AUs, and I do love them -- as far as they are well built up and have a sense and some potential to bring fun.
Re: The use of Sindarin in Gondor
Personally, I love to write AU. Often when reading a story, or thinking about it afterwards I can't help but think things like: "What would have happened if..."
I just love to play with that. Change one little detail in the big clockwork of the story and then see where it takes us. The important thing for me when doing this is that the rest of the clockwork has to stay intact. Especially the characters have to be true and stay who they are.
Yes, AU is great fun, *if* everyone is aware of it and knows which part was changed *and* stick true to the characters and the spirit of the story.
Quote:Change one little detail in the big clockwork of the story and then see where it takes us. The important thing for me when doing this is that the rest of the clockwork has to stay intact. Especially the characters have to be true and stay who they are.
Re: The use of Sindarin in Gondor
I am in full agreement! AU is great fun, so long as it is clear which parts are AU and the story stays intact overall.
I never caught the lines in Tolkein that show that Faramir did understand the Elven tongue, but if it's in the book, that settles it.
Question (please pardon if it's a stupid one): Do all the people's names in Gondor tend to be Elvish, or is this mainly the nobility? This would be handy to know for future reference.
Re: The use of Sindarin in Gondor
From what we know about the use of elvish, it seems likely that the same applies to the use of the language in names. So, it would be mostly the decendants of Numenor, possibly the nobility, yes.
Re: The use of Sindarin in Gondor
I think it would be general for most of the gondorians (except, perhaps, those descendants of the Northmen who settled in Gondor and never tied bonds with them, perhaps living on their own), since it was a way to honour the "Elendili", the followers of Amandil and Elendil, loyal to the Elves and confronted to the "King's men", the followers of Ar-Pharazon (and the rest of kings who turned their back to both Valar and Elves and spoke the Adunaic, and named themselves in Adunaic too).
The rest of Gondorian names appearing in LOTR are in sindarin or have sindarin roots (Ioreth, Beregond, etc.).
).
Well, when someone complained, I posted the info I had about the use of sindarin in Gondor etc etc to shush them. And if this failed too (it's awesome to see how many people can say: "Whatever Tolkien said..." or "It little matters what Tolkien says about because..." or "In the movies...") then I knew that that game was not my game 
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