Welcome to the Nathaniel Marston Fan Forum, where you
can discuss one of Daytime TV's most beloved actors.
Soap Operas just wouldn't be the same without Nathaniel Marston and his character Dr. Michael McBain.
Don't forget to check out Nathaniel Marston Online
Nathaniel Marston Fan Zone!
DNMFs
If you would like a Dedicated Nathaniel Marston Fan number, please leave a message on the "Announcements" board, and we'll set you up with your # as soon as possible.
About this board
No registration is required to post, but it does give you special benefits. There are no ads on this board thanks to the generous donations of several members here.
Ladyeevil Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 475
(10/2/03 4:04 pm) Reply
There's really no place to hypothesize about the show re: Al
This is the place to talk about NM and Al, and I love to comment on NM's acting choices and how Al affects me, and any other characters that NM plays, be it in a movie or Eddie Silva (someday when we get the tapes), rather than comment from a Marcal perspective at the Booth.
But some of the kinds of things I sometimes like to talk about are not what anyone is into. And the Booth is no different. Its more of a Knoll style of discussion... I tried going to the Knoll to get feedback on my ideas but no one wants to talk about Al there, because they've written Al off because they don't like Marcal (some even say NM was better off leaving in terms of his career.. )... and I can never FIND my Media Domain posts and how people even FIND a good rant to comment on there is beyond me.. and soapnet? Joke...
Advice?
I don't get feedback, but at least I've expressed myself when I post... or... maybe in the same way you can't play sports with yourself, its a total waste of time.
Re: There's really no place to hypothesize about the show re
first off, let me say that I don't think your postings are a waste of time. I've read everything that you've written on here. It try to respond when I can but sometimes I either don't have the time or I really don't know what to say. But I do enjoy reading what you have to say. There are times when I don't relate to what you're saying because it's not something that I can relate too but other times even if I don't respond you at least make think about things that maybe I would never have thought of before and I like that.
What is this Knoll that you speak of? I'm just curious.
I wish I had some advice for you but I don't. This and the Booth are really the only boards that I go to and have ever gone too since as you know I'm pretty new to this whole online messageboard world.
Jen
aka whitetiger or Eevil Awakening -On the outside I may look like a sweet little cat but beware because underneath it all is a ferocious tiger ready to pounce at a moments notice.
Natalie: "Al, when are you gonna realize that love isn't supposed to be this hard? When it's meant to be, it just happens."
Al: "Oh, whatever, in what fairy tale?"
-"I have tons of practice handling people's dark sides. I enjoy the challenge and bad boys can be very sexy." Greenlee, AMC
Ladyeevil Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 480
(10/3/03 5:12 pm) Reply
Thanks Jen...
That means more to me than I can possibly express here. I think it does belong here, and if only a handful of NM's TRUE fans see it, like you and the other NM fans from the Marcalers who visit, then that's all the audience I could ask for.
The Knoll? Wow... Okay... Its hard to explain that place, but if you ever want some harsh reality about OLTL, that's THE place to go, though Media Domain does that on some level, but MediaDomain is mixed with the shallower posts ("He's like so hot so he's a good actor" ), like at Soapnet.
The thing is... the Knoll is at a site dedicated to Todd, called "Totally Toddian"... long story, but it's not REALLY about Todd as much is it is about a Toddian style of perspective, in which you call a spade a spade, and you don't play nicey nice with anyone, and you ESPECIALLY don't EVER lose a cold analytical point of view. It was built on the idea that fans can't trust anyone, especially their own love of an actor. I would like to do a sight like that but call it "Llanview Lost", to open it up to ALL the characters being discussed on that level, but I would be unable to allow TOTAL openness, because I'd be vigilant about playing nicer, because its who I am. But no one would come unless I found a niche of people who got that concept.
ON a side note... You know I've posted about Roger Howarth here... and how I got an email from him, and wondered why he would choose to recognize me, but not all the other fans who also deserved recognition, like the webmistress of that site... okay, you know how I feel about Roger... funny, seems I'm right about the guy though.. Kristen Aldersen (Starr) has an interview in SOD this month making it clear that she doesn't really miss the guy and how he treated her. What's so wierd is that everything I've ever posted about over the years, in terms of my theories about actors and behind the scenes...
Knoll.. Is like the polar opposite of the Booth, which is all about love, and trying to understand everyone, and maintaining a peaceful state of mind. But the Knoll has my respect too. I love dualities.. warm love versus analytical coldness... there's such beauty in our online world, but its easy to miss... and that juxtaposition is a perfect example. I wonder if Nathaniel understands just how special HIS fans are... I mean, I think Knollers are cool too, but there's something to be said about everyone leaving their agendas at the door for the Booth... I'll bet KB and NM don't know how lucky they are to have this type of fan base.. its unique and beautiful.
I ran with those old Knollies big time in the beginning, and was there when the Knoll was born... I even pre-date them as an onliner, as I'm one of the original 20 onliners for OLTL. I disappeared for years because I just didn't care about the canvas anymore. I wandered back to the online world because Nathaniel's Al got me interested enough to want to talk. I'm talking about something my old Knoll buddies don't get, and I doubt they respect me anymore because of it... I think I'm onto something with NM... well, I know it. What's hilarious about all this is that it started to look like I was wrong about NM (not that I ever thought so!), and he came out on top! I can't help but think they have to wonder if they are missing something. And they are. Something that us DNMFers and MARCALers get.
MsT05 Registered User
Posts: 2
(10/6/03 11:22 am) Reply
Re: There's really no place to hypothesize about the show re
I am relatively new to the posting world and I can't do all the things you do w/ clips and pics, but I do enjoy this site and the posts I have seen you do at The Diner.
But, I don't recall seeing a hint at more in depth NM discussion or I would be game to join in. I just need to know where to go! Cuz' I really think NM is talented and there is a depth there that I have yet to see them delve into. It doesn't hurt that I like intelligent men w/ a heart of gold and no problem kicking your a&% if you get on his bad side. Oh, and his body is killer too!
By the way anyone know where to get some of his earlier OLTL tapes? When he was acting psycho over Jen and even b4 that. I've heard he was really scary w/ Nat.
Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 486
(10/6/03 4:31 pm) Reply
Al tapes...
I have alot myself, but I was so busy as a teacher, I am missing bulks of time periods and I must have taped over some of it accidently.. I was SOOO busy.. my tapes are not what you want, but I'd offer if it was the only thing out there. A lady named Fran is making some of the pre-marcie Al tapes... and I'll be purchasing... I'll post when she's ready and we can order at that time.
Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 493
(10/7/03 2:16 pm) Reply
A really great article on our show that focuses on Al...
This is via LadyDay at the Kitchen...
I guess I'm wrong... there IS a place to speculate about Al in a context outside of Marcal at the Diner... I think I'll try to talk to the Marcalers more.
I still think there are things that are primarily about Al or NM that will always belong here though.. anyways.. I digress. You should read this... I think this person hit on some of the things I've felt for a long time.. like wanting to see Marcie as more than a Goodygoodie.. and wanting to see more of Al's edges.. I mean, she doesn't say this.. but she hints at what I've been saying all along..
Also you might note that Nathaniel was quoted in one magazine or another about beleving fans would be into realistic ... and you'll see this person Blondi... is into seeing our soap have more "human interaction"... and I can't agree more with all that is written here. I can't even watch Roxy, except when she's being real... and I might LIKE silliness once in a while, but not when its the main fare...
I've been worried about the show tanking for some time, and while I'm happy that NM got his repreive... He can't save the show single handedly... Maybe all we need is Heaven Can Wait, because maybe that story will outlast OLTL... I hope not.. I don't know enough about their world to speculate, but I do understand bottom lines... and I do understand that those who have power to change things don't ever seem to know what the fans know.. the obvious about what we as fans like.
~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~
Link to column: www.soaptownusa.com/lv.html
-------------------------------
But Dallas is Defunct
A surprising number of long-time fans are starting to suggest that OLTL pull the now-infamous “It was all a dream” move to salvage the hasty firings of several beloved characters. They better have an outstanding show in place to take over then.
-------------------------------
By: Mrs. Blondi von Slagdevicz
Congratulations, Marcal fans, you got your Al back. In late-breaking news online that spread like wild fire, Nathaniel Marston received a last-minute reprieve and will now stay on at OLTL for a longer stay, in the spirit of Warren Beatty’s “Heaven Can Wait” movie.
A devoted Marcal fan e-mailed me last week with thanks for helping put the early word of mouth out in favor of this captivating and earnest couple through my weekly column and maybe for helping keep Mr. Marston’s job intact. Eh, I demurred, accept credit where credit is due, you fans out there who wouldn’t give up and hammered TPTB to rethink their hasty decision.
If only you could save more jobs, work more miracles.
Which brings me to the latest slew of rumor-mongering speculation on various boards and gossip columns. Eye on Soaps’ gossip columnist Sage – with owner Katrina’s inspirational catalyst – suggested that TPTB just might be clever and daring enough to attempt a literal translation of “Heaven Can Wait,” wherein Al’s spirit takes over the dying body of another, possibly Joey or Cristian, to complete one final mission before crossing over. In the movie, Beatty’s character looked just like himself to the audience, but to the other characters, he looked like another man, the living man. Same deal here, which could make for an interesting, creative, albeit complex, series of triangles and misunderstandings.
Detractors doubt the current regime could pull this off. If it were simply left to the co-head writers Michael Malone and Josh Griffith, maybe. But as the show stands wobbly now, I must agree with the detractors.
I must also agree that pulling a “Dallas” won’t help the struggling, last-placed ABC soap either. In order for this to work, TPTB must have an improved bible of storylines way into a year, possibly three, already in place, ready to take over—without the meddling of those bottom-line executive suits (this means you, Frons). They don’t, so they better just use what they already have and fix this @#%$ hole of a mess the best they can.
They have their work cut out. Rumors abound that they’re losing control of a sinking ship... actors secretly handing out resumes and moonlighting on auditions, possible other gigs... behind-the-scenes executives busy cutting costs, cast and crew to bare-bones necessity.
At this rate, there’ll be nobody left to attempt an interactive ensemble posing as a fictional community, but Rex, Jen, Joey and that diseased hooker with the big fake boobs... enough for an orgy but hardly a soap.
You know it’s a sick, sad, sorry state of affairs when Viki shows up late with a lame excuse that her return flight was delayed so she couldn’t make Al’s funeral, much less be bothered interacting with him like she used to when he, C.J. and Sarah were running around underfoot at Llanfair. (Let’s not forget that Al wasn’t even allowed a decent reaction to the fact that Sarah came back all grown up.) Or you’re going, WTF?!, when Jessica fights back big dollops of crocodile tears for the “best friend” she never knew she had when Al was alive, and in between obsessing over Antonio’s mock of a murder trial.
I’m even getting to the point where the solid, colorful, beloved characters who usually could do no wrong with me, start grating on my last nerve, honey-chile. That includes Marcie wrapping her Mother Teresa martyrdom jacket around like bragging rights, butting in on everybody’s inferior version of grief with her noble affectations and look-at-me-how-much-more-tortured-I-am gestures, and Roxy always seeming to hog the spotlight by chowing down on the scenery with her hungry mouth open regardless of who’s in it and how important it is sometimes to be subtle and restrained.
Of course these minor annoyances don’t last long, primarily because these two specific examples, among many (I nearly threw a chair at R.J. last week when he grabbed Antonio’s baby away), inevitably redeem themselves despite the constantly horrendous substandard script written by so-called experts who seem content to just scratch surfaces and paint corners.
When Marcie initially freaked about Max and Gabrielle – turning in pitch-perfect performances, btw – taking Al to Argentina for burial, I groaned, waiting for the tough little broad who belts Janis Joplin like a Broadway champ to strut on her self-appointed Al-is-God podium and lecture his parents about her truer love winning out. But she pleasantly relieved me by letting Al go, with an unexpected soft acquiescence and tender consideration. If nothing else, her occasional tendency toward morality lectures and unyielding stubborn streak, tempered by painstaking sensitivity and compassionate non-judmentalism when called for, merely assures her place in the annals of true soap opera heroine history, alongside Megan and Karen... human with the same requisite amount of faults and virtues.
Right about the time Max visited Foxy Roxy’s, I’d decided enough was enough, just get rid of this clown who does nothing but karaoke badly (sorry, not a fan) and mug for the cameras, forgetting all those other legitimate moments where she redeemed herself as the class act in hiding, a master at nuance and reading all kinds of people under duress. She just seemed to be in the way a lot, right before Natalie’s crucial pool shot, between young love and Gabrielle’s Bo waffling. Not to mention the unlikely love match with Nigel, who—a year prior—was supposed to be a gay man hiding gay photos, photos that Rae used to blackmail him with. But after Max cut through her usual buffoonery bullshit with his simple, “Al’s dead,” she took me, and Max, by surprise, by taking him in her arms and sobbing violently, every ounce of regret and happiness experienced with Al pouring through. Later, they talked about Al, as two adults with a lot of history and a lot of baggage do, reminding me of the rare time several weeks, months ago when R.J. strolled into Max’s newly acquired bar to bond. Okay, so she’s still got it.
If TPTB could somehow manage to tap into these very real, very human(e) interactions, distill them into mostly conversation, reactions, emotional intrigue captivated within a room, under cover, behind a bedroom curtain with a core of such solid characters actors willing to take a dump in pay for art’s and fans’ sake...they’d solve the problem of financial straits and allow for the judicial use of pulling a “Dallas” (pull it too often, and a show loses credibility).
Maybe then we’d return to the kind of soap operas we all grew up on as kids and still yearn for throughout the current batch of stylized, faddish bullshit.
Just a thought.
And remember, the view’s on me...
~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~
Edited by: Ladyeevil at: 10/12/03 7:08 am
Re: A really great article on our show that focuses on Al...
Thank you for posting that article here Char. Definitely an interesting read.
On that Heaven Can Wait idea, that pretty much what I had in mind of how the story would play out since we first heard the news. With them talking about Al being dead in body but not in spirit, what popped into my head was something of this would happen where Al's spirit would go into someone else's body and no one would see him as Al but we the audience would.
I agree with what she says about Jessica. I've never liked how that her acting like she and Al were best friends but it seemed like she never gave a damn about what he was doing. She's spent more time with Bernie the homeless guy than she ever did with Al her so called best friend, at least in my opinion. That always got on my nerves. She always is referring to him as her best friend but she hardly ever had any type of conversation with him.
I agree completely with what she said about more of the "human interaction" because that what we, the fans, would be able to relate too. Real human emotion and interactions is what we experience in our real lives so it would be so much easier to relate to. That is probably why Marcal gained so much popularity so quickly, they were real and felt real to the audience. The amount of fans support they have equals or is greater than other soap couples that have been around for years. and a big part of that is how real they felt to their audience.
Granted I do like some of the silliness and things that unbelievability factor only because it is a fictional world and believable things don't always happen in a fictional world. But perhaps balancing it a little bit better with the realism element might make the show a whole lot better. More realism is definitely needed but that other stuff has to be there too, but not to the point where that is most of what there is.
Jen
aka whitetiger or Eevil Awakening -On the outside I may look like a sweet little cat but beware because underneath it all is a ferocious tiger ready to pounce at a moments notice.
Natalie: "Al, when are you gonna realize that love isn't supposed to be this hard? When it's meant to be, it just happens."
Al: "Oh, whatever, in what fairy tale?"
-"I have tons of practice handling people's dark sides. I enjoy the challenge and bad boys can be very sexy." Greenlee, AMC
Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 495
(10/8/03 6:26 am) Reply
Re: A really great article on our show that focuses on Al...
I posted so much at the Kitchen in response to this... and I totally agree with what you are saying.. obviously its Marcie, and even though Jen was no friend at all, how was it that he thought SHE was his best friend when it was Jess? I wish the show would designate some OLTL history buffs to work with the writers.. fans would do it for free.
katjam007 Registered User
Posts: 1
(10/8/03 12:16 pm) Reply
Can I add to this?
I for one can't wait to see the "dark" side of Al. And the dark side of Marcie, too. I think what has me all excited about this s/l is the potential for multi-layered characters. We know Marcie has a sneaky side to her from her conniving with Jen, that part of her personality has been lost in the developing romance with Al. And NM- LadyE describes him perfectly as the bad boy with the heart of gold. I'd like to see more of the bad boy. And more internal conflicts with Marcie and Al/new guy (whatever he'll be) rather than outside forces and big misunderstandings tearing them apart. These writers shine when they delve into the psyche, I'm want more of that and less of the usual, and very tired soap opera cliches.
of course you can add to this
Come and post more often Kathy.
You're right, it would be nice to see something different besides the usual soap opera cliches and hopefully the upcoming SL wil give them the opportunity to do just that. Also, this SL will provide for more opportunity for that conflict that we are anxious to see. There have so many external factors keeping them apart, it's time to see some internal conflict that every couple has to go through in one way or another.
Jen
aka whitetiger or Eevil Awakening -On the outside I may look like a sweet little cat but beware because underneath it all is a ferocious tiger ready to pounce at a moments notice.
Natalie: "Al, when are you gonna realize that love isn't supposed to be this hard? When it's meant to be, it just happens."
Al: "Oh, whatever, in what fairy tale?"
-"I have tons of practice handling people's dark sides. I enjoy the challenge and bad boys can be very sexy." Greenlee, AMC
Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 498
(10/8/03 3:33 pm) Reply
Kathy, you kiddin? I get EXCITED to see people respond!
Jump in it anytime, cuz I swear, I'm always bursting with thoughts and dying for feedback!
I noticed there's alot of in depth analysis starting at the Kitchen... I'm into that kind of thing... I'll have to get there more often, but I've been doing that kind fo thing here for awhile...
See, I think that NM is the guy they need to invest in as the up and coming wolf of Llanview, but worried about how his other body will stand in the way... I think Malone thinks REX is that guy.. I don't. I think Rex is the antithesis of JOE, evil vrs good... but Al? He's the guy who has some dark and intense edges, built around a deeply complicated and genuinely loving man... NM brought so many layers that Malone would have to be a fool to overlook the gift that is in front of him.
I think Al will always resort to using manipulations, no matter what he's learned about life with Marcie... more like Todd... won't back off a fight, even with a woman, IF she's asking for it... but his layers with Marcie would keep him from doing anything so heinous that he'd be like Todd... I mean, the boy was not abused like Todd was... but Al has some serious issues with his mom being in prison, and all those hardships... as well as dealing with abandonment issues with Max...
katjam007 Registered User
Posts: 2
(10/8/03 9:39 pm) Reply
Re: of course you can add to this
I love story and character analysis! Hey, its part of my job. And I can see so much potential with these characters and actors its like a story analyst's dream.
I'm new to OLTL so I'm catching up on backstory. But your right, Char, Al has some issues because of his upbringing that haven't really been addressed. Also, whoever the new character Al's spirit is taking over, he'll have to co-exist with him. What if this guy has a bad boy streak in him too? The potential for conflict is enormous- Al vs. himself, Al vs. the new body, Al vs. Marcie, Al vs. Gabby even. And the rest of Llanview. He's got a lot more challenges ahead of him then just winning back Marcie. I'm so psyched to see what NM does with this character, how he handles all the different facets of it, and how the writers bring that to the fore. I think now with the potential for more scenes and longer scenes with NM, they'll be able to delve more deeply into the subject, instead of giving the character the superficial treatment he's received. This is the best thing that could happen to NM (at this point in his career anyway), the character of Al, and the character of Marcie. She'll change and grow along with this s/l. I think this will make OTLT a stronger soap too.
I'm not seeing the bad boy in Rex at all. I really like the actor though, I think he's one of the better ones on the show and is getting the short end of the stick since they don't know what to do with his character (sound familiar?) But Al/new guy/whatever is the bad boy, and in some ways the lost soul, too. He'd only just found part of himself when he died...and now the story continues.
Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 502
(10/8/03 9:08 pm) Reply
Re: of course you can add to this
Quote:I think this will make OTLT a stronger soap too.
So you aren't worried about what Blondi was saying? That if they don't handle this right? You know, I've been in Malone's corner for years... I'm gonna take it on faith that Malone knows what he's doing because that man is a genius in my book (OLTL is a character driven show and Malone is best at character creation)
Quote:This is the best thing that could happen to NM (at this point in his career anyway),
I've been singing this song the day we got Datalounge info that he was getting a repreive...
Quote:I'm not seeing the bad boy in Rex at all. I really like the actor though, I think he's one of the better ones on the show and is getting the short end of the stick since they don't know what to do with his character (sound familiar?)
I had to take a moment to consider what you are seeing.. no bad boy, eh? Maybe I'm not getting something. When I look at Rex, ALL I see is the bad boy, as in one-note.. I'll take that back, maybe three.. cuz Levoisier is not a bad actor. He's FAR and AWAY more enjoyable than FUMERO, which is like watching PAINT DRY... but... I honestly think Levoisier could bring more to the character with acting choices... show SOME vunerability. I'm working on a character right now (for an acting class) that has so much denial going on that I don't think she'd show any vunerability, so I'm also trying to figure my way through such a character... Maybe Levoisier has his reasons... maybe there's some reason his character can't be real, and I understand that, but when there's no other character in the room to have to prove anything to... ya know? Okay, so maybe he's trying to prove something to himself so he doesn't reveal it to himself.. but its getting a little thin here... I don't buy it.
As for the show not having a direction for him? Hmm.. he's no lap dog to Jen... like what Nathaniel was given to play... geez... gets to rub shoulders with RJ, David Vickers... all the playaz... cuz he's got his own club... The show handed him Sonny Corinthos/Luke Spencer on a silver freakin platter... but maybe I'm so irritated I'm missing something.. I'm always open to accepting I missed something...
Course, I'm one tough critic. I knwo when I don't feel something and when I do.. and I analyze it.... I actually realize that ALL these actors are good, cuz I'm taking a acting for camera class... omg.. so much harder than theatre... all the things to remember going on at the same time... and cut/action.. budget takes... its a wonder we see ANY emotion. But why can some actors do it (like Nathaniel) and some can't? Practice, sure... experience... you bet... but I'd add a couple things... a risk taking attitude... an ability to see into the life of things... a non judgemental attitude.. the essence of creativity is perhaps what I'm trying to describe... there's somethign GOING ON in some actors, that others will never have... and I sense it, and tune in.
Char
katjam007 Registered User
Posts: 3
(10/9/03 8:30 am) Reply
Re: of course you can add to this
Quote:I had to take a moment to consider what you are seeing.. no bad boy, eh? Maybe I'm not getting something.
I see a bad boy wanna be...I see an actor handed a script telling him to play a stale character...no depth to him at all. Like you said, maybe Levoisier could bring more to the role, and he has been given all the props. But where is the story? What is his purpose? All I see is someone who is standing around pretending to be busy and shady until Jen shows up and he can have some real interaction, and I use "real" very loosely. The structure is in place, but there's no motivation there. So I think you and I basically agree on this, Char. Something's really missing here, whether its because of the s/l or the actor or tptb meddling where they don't belong...we'll never know. We can just voice our opinion and speculate.
While the whole Marcal s/l is, on the surface, pretty simple, there were layers to it, and the actors worked with that. NM has a great understanding as to what makes Al tick, which helps him make the character real. And he doesn't hold back, which I think takes tremendous guts. Its the same thing with writing- you can pick up a book by one author and read it and say "Yeah, that was pretty good. The plot was interesting, the characters were well done..." blah blah blah. Then you pick up another book by a different author and you're blown away. Because that author wasn't afraid to let it go, to transfer real emotion, real pain, real humanity, onto the page. And in order to do that you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable, to open yourself up like you never had before. To reveal deep, core truths. It's probably the same with acting...portraying truth. NM does that, and its why we're drawn to him.
Geez, hope all that rambling made sense.
kathy
Ladyeevil Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 504
(10/9/03 3:15 pm) Reply
You make alot of sense...
What do you do, may I ask? You have some great insight about fiction. To call Rex a bad boy wannabe is to hit it right on the nail... I wasn't looking closely obviously, else I might have seen it. Well, I did credit Levoisier with being more than one note...
I write fan fiction (its here). Mind you... its just off the top of my head because I have a full time job and go to classes at night. I don't know what spell NM put me under, but I make time...
I see millions of missed opportunites after I wrote something.., and I never even worry about being accurate for a second... then I figure, with the fan fic, what the heck.. at least I'm putting something out there for fans, and once in awhile I hit a good line or concept. But the only way I can write anything is for it to come from someplace real, or else its a task, and wouldn't be fun anymore. But then I worry that I'm opening up too much, letting people see too much, my bad side, my insecurities, my obsessions... its scary and risky. But I can't help but think that others must feel some of these things and they hide it from others, so maybe they read what I wrote and it makes them feel like they aren't alone. I accidently let my openness spill into my posts, and though I deleted them, I sometimes think people who read it might feel bad about me.
I see someone like NM taking risks in his scenes... the vunerablility comes from somewhere... it gives me the courage to be creative... I'm going to compare Levoisier and Marston, perhaps to understand myself what it is about Marston that inspires me so.
I see Rex being raised by the same woman who raised Natalie, and his Aunt Corine being one seriously disturbed woman in a deceptive way, so the man has issues... and those things are written in as much as Al's parent issues are written in. Rex WANTS something, and I'm not talking about Jen, but something about her that she represents, that fills some need he has (and its not enough that she has things in common with Roxy, as the writers AGAIN try to infuse reasons I feel that Levoisier needs to bring himself), as well as why he has some desire to get involved with RJ and what not. Its nto enough for us to know that he's son of Rox, and raised by Corine. Levoisier has to make us feel what Rex feels. Levoisier has to decide what that is, because no writer can do that. A reader of fiction would normally decide this.. not the writer. When the actor steps in, I can't help but believe, because I haven't even read ONE Stanilauski book, that he leaves it still up to the audience on some level, but there is some representation of what the actor percieves about his characters... subcontext basically.
I remember Al was afflicted with a bad case of Jen too. Al lifted her out of the snow, and confronted her when she was feeling well. I understood why Al was letting go of Jen this time even though he didn't in the past when she was cruel... what changed? Not the writing. No one WROTE the reason he wasn't buying Jen anymore. One could ASSUME it was the straw that broke the camel's back, or just one too many reality checks finally caught up with Al, but such a viewer would have missed the whole point because I FELT there was more of a reason, some kind of light that went on in Al that came from within, not from outside. I could see the transformation. I sensed NM conveying that Al was changing, not that circumstances changed Al. NM BROUGHT the reason with him, and it didn't need to be told, because it was FELT. That's the best example I can think of to juxtapose these two young up and coming leading men, since dealing with a Jen affliction can be compared.
Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 505
(10/9/03 3:37 pm) Reply
Re: of course you can add to this
I look forward to all these conversations.... I'm so excited about what is to come...
Quote:The potential for conflict is enormous- Al vs. himself, Al vs. the new body, Al vs. Marcie, Al vs. Gabby even. And the rest of Llanview. He's got a lot more challenges ahead of him then just winning back Marcie. I'm so psyched to see what NM does with this character, how he handles all the different facets of it, and how the writers bring that to the fore. I think now with the potential for more scenes and longer scenes with NM, they'll be able to delve more deeply into the subject, instead of giving the character the superficial treatment he's received. This is the best thing that could happen to NM (at this point in his career anyway), the character of Al, and the character of Marcie. She'll change and grow along with this s/l. I think this will make OTLT a stronger soap too
katjam007 Registered User
Posts: 4
(10/10/03 12:11 am) Reply
Re: You make alot of sense...
Actually I'm a novelist and freelance writer. Which is why I enjoy these analyses, deconstructing fiction is the best way to learn how to write it, imo. I'm not an actor, but I do create characters, and when I write I will act out the scenes sometimes, facial expressions and whatnot. I really think writing and acting are so intertwined--without a story and characters an actor doesn't have a job. Without someone to embody the characters, a screenwriter's vision doesn't come to life. But I digress...
<<But then I worry that I'm opening up too much, letting people see too much, my bad side, my insecurities, my obsessions... its scary and risky. >>
Exactly. It's terrifying. And it goes back to what I said about portraying truth. Being real in the "artist's world" is necessary to reach the audience. From a writer's perspective, we put a bit of ourselves into every piece of work. Overcoming the instinct to hold back is difficult, but so satisfying when you're free enough to explore the fictional reality.
<<Levoisier has to make us feel what Rex feels. Levoisier has to decide what that is, because no writer can do that. A reader of fiction would normally decide this.. not the writer. When the actor steps in, I can't help but believe, because I haven't even read ONE Stanilauski book, that he leaves it still up to the audience on some level, but there is some representation of what the actor percieves about his characters... subcontext basically.>>
I agree with you on most of this...but my spec on Rex's story is that the writers haven't provided a clear cut need/motivation for him. He needs something, but what is it? Maybe the writers and actor want the audience to guess at that, but why put us through the trouble? The thing with Al is we know what he needs. He needs acceptance, he needs to feel valued, and he needs someone to protect and take care of. From what I gather in his backstory he's had to take care of Gabby before, and Max at times too. So he slips into protective mode with Marcie very easily. These things are clear to the audience, and not just because NM shows this. The writing shows it. I can do the same character need breakdown of Marcie too, her needs/motivations are very clear. Its built into the framework of the story.
But with Rex, as well as so many other characters on this show, its not clear. Yes, we know Rex needs something, but all characters need something. Why can't we learn what that is? Because I suspect the writers don't know. And if they don't know, how's Levoisier supposed to know? How can he play a consistent, grounded character if the writers keep changing things up on him? Is he a pimp? Or does he just hang out with that one hooker? Is he out to corrupt Jen, or does he just want to be with her? Is he her friend or her worst enemy, or both? I don't know, I can't really tell. And frankly I don't want to work that hard, especially on a soap opera, when I only get to see the characters a few times a week.
<<Not the writing. No one WROTE the reason he wasn't buying Jen anymore. One could ASSUME it was the straw that broke the camel's back, or just one too many reality checks finally caught up with Al, but such a viewer would have missed the whole point because I FELT there was more of a reason, some kind of light that went on in Al that came from within, not from outside. I could see the transformation. >>
This is where I'm going to disagree with you SLIGHTLY. But I think its because we come from two different perspectives- writing vs. performing, yet they are so intertwined. I think the turning point for Al came when Jen threatened to abort the baby. At that point he could have kicked Jen to the curb completely and never have anything to do with her. But instead the writers wrote a scene where Al saves her, and despite himself, he's still drawn to her. There's where the layers come in. His obsession is still there at that point, he's still hanging on to a thin thread of hope that he could have any kind of connection with Jen, even if it was just being civil to each other. And as you say, she was her usual witchy self and the lightbulb went off in Al's head. He was finally, FINALLY through with her. The credit I give to NM is taking this turning point and making it real to the audience. He showed the character coming to his senses. But if the writers hadn't put that scene in there, we wouldn't have had the transition. Instead it would have been Al angry at Jen and saying he's over her because of the abortion threat, and the audience would be unsure if he really was. It seemed he was forever telling his friends and family that he was through with Jen after the scene in the hospital, but everyone doubted him. Except the audience- we knew he was over her for sure because of the scene in the hospital. Through that scene NM convinced us he was.
One thing I don't get about all of this- what's the big deal about Jen? Yeah, she's pretty, but so is everyone else on the show. She's selfish, her personality is almost non-existent, yet she has all these men obsessed/self-destructing over her. Maybe I missed the scenes where she was shown to be a loveable woman since I came late to the Marcal party. I mean, if tptb wanted to portray every man under 30 in Llanview as a horndog who only thinks with one part of his anatomy, they did a bang up job of it. Personally I like my men with a lot more depth, and I'm glad that Al/NM has finally been given the opportunity to show some.
Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 506
(10/10/03 4:47 pm) Reply
Re: of course you can add to this
Quote:my spec on Rex's story is that the writers haven't provided a clear cut need/motivation for him. He needs something, but what is it? Maybe the writers and actor want the audience to guess at that, but why put us through the trouble? The thing with Al is we know what he needs.
I can be of some help here. In my classes, I'm told to make those choices as an actor... because if I have a backstory, a subcontext... the audience will feel it without it being explained or understood on that level. (On a side note.. I'm so stoked I have to shout from the rooftops.. I did a performance on camera last night that I can't even believe I did... the class never gave anyone a standing ovation... but I got one.. and everyone was asking ME advice!!!! Its such a scary feeling to be ON, but such a RUSH.. I'm still trippin.. I wish I knew who I was when I was much younger)
In Levoisier's defense, it could be that he is leaving room because he's being told to, because there is no clear cut direction. I don't know how that would work, but I can imagine it. I only saw a bad boy reaching toward that which is natural, and you saw a guy wanting to be something he's not... if you have the interpretation that Levoisier wants... then perhaps he gave it a layer and I missed it... but if Levoisier wants to leave that open and unclear which it is, because someone asked him to because the character is still being drawn, then he's hard to feel in the mean time. I think the biggest problem with Al was that in common with Rex. Although I was FEELING Al, he was being written contradictory... able to stand up to people and also a lap dog, so many fans didn't feel him. I think sometimes NM's acting was what made me still FEEL Al despite it, whereas Levosier's Rex, has some confusion, but I'm not feeling him. Surprisingly so, because I love hot bad boys.
As for knowing what Al needs in the writing... I actually thought about that fact... that he wants to be protective, and that started with Jen before Marcie... because of Gabrielle.. I jumped to an example of NM's acting that wasn't written in, and used the Jen in the snow example precisely because I needed to give an example of something Nathaniel brings. Now that I explained in the previous paragraph in this post... what I'm referring to, perhaps you can feel what I'm talking about now when Al confronted Jen afterwards.. in the hospital.
Ladyeevil Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 507
(10/10/03 5:14 pm) Reply
Re: You make alot of sense...
Quote:I think the turning point for Al came when Jen threatened to abort the baby. At that point he could have kicked Jen to the curb completely and never have anything to do with her. But instead the writers wrote a scene where Al saves her, and despite himself, he's still drawn to her. There's where the layers come in. His obsession is still there at that point, he's still hanging on to a thin thread of hope that he could have any kind of connection with Jen, even if it was just being civil to each other. And as you say, she was her usual witchy self and the lightbulb went off in Al's head. He was finally, FINALLY through with her. The credit I give to NM is taking this turning point and making it real to the audience. He showed the character coming to his senses. But if the writers hadn't put that scene in there, we wouldn't have had the transition. Instead it would have been Al angry at Jen and saying he's over her because of the abortion threat, and the audience would be unsure if he really was. It seemed he was forever telling his friends and family that he was through with Jen after the scene in the hospital, but everyone doubted him. Except the audience- we knew he was over her for sure because of the scene in the hospital. Through that scene NM convinced us he was.
Tell me about it! So many T&Bers hung on because there was never any closure! Credit to the writers to finally use Jen to prop Al, instead of the other way around!
We see the same transition, but different motivations... I don't think the external issues made Al finally wake up and smell the coffee. I don't think obsession works that way. I think that anger is the only thing that could result from her betrayals to his expectations. Perhaps alot of the audience was able to think so, and maybe the writers hoped they would, but I don't think its enough to say that it was the final reality check.
NM may or may not have conciously realized that something else needed to be infused, but he FELT Al, and brought it to life for us to feel Al finding something inside himself. something that wanted more out of life, and THAT makes Al someone we want to be with.
Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 508
(10/10/03 5:21 pm) Reply
Re: You make alot of sense...
Quote:One thing I don't get about all of this- what's the big deal about Jen? Yeah, she's pretty, but so is everyone else on the show. She's selfish, her personality is almost non-existent, yet she has all these men obsessed/self-destructing over her. Maybe I missed the scenes where she was shown to be a loveable woman since I came late to the Marcal party. I mean, if tptb wanted to portray every man under 30 in Llanview as a horndog who only thinks with one part of his anatomy, they did a bang up job of it. Personally I like my men with a lot more depth, and I'm glad that Al/NM has finally been given the opportunity to show some.
The million dollar question... I'm so Al-centric that I'd have put any woman he wanted on a platter and served it to the boy... Okay, this coming from someone who had genuine MOTIVATION to want to see her shine... I wanted to see good Al stories and guess what? She was IT... it was Jen or NOTHING... Not that I'm big on Archer either, but I hoped at least that... but fans wanted her with Mr. Snoresville, Cris. To her credit, she is FUN, albeit lacking the layers... I think Jessica Morris is not the personality type to really go beyond professionalism to audience connection. I think she's a pro, but we're never going to identify with Jen until she feels her audience. I think that some people need to experience more life to have the kind of ability to SEE INTO THE LIFE OF THINGS.... KB and NM seem to know something.. the same thing KDP knows... its all about the audience baby.
)... and I can never FIND my Media Domain posts and how people even FIND a good rant to comment on there is beyond me.. and soapnet? Joke...
or Eevil Awakening 
), like at Soapnet.
Email This To a Friend
Topic Commands
Click to receive email notification of replies
Click to stop receiving email notification of replies