I decided to answer some posts on his board,although most of his answers are outlandish,he has been fairly respectful.He just needs to be reached out to with truth and love.
Not seeing I-you relationships while reading confuses J.O.
Quote:
Why do Oneness teachers ignore Greek grammar?
Example:
John 1:1. In their exegesis of John 1:1, their anti-distinction a priori assumption: Word = Father, precludes them from considering the contextual and grammatical usage of the Greek preposition pros (lit. toward, facing). As one of world's greatest Greek grammarians and theologians, A. T. Robertson points out:
With God (pros ton theon). Though existing eternally with God the Logos was in perfect fellowship with God. Pros with the accusative presents a plane of equality and intimacy, face to face with each other. In 1 John 2:1 we have a like use of pros: "We have a Paraclete with the Father" (parakleton echomen pros ton patera). See prosopon pros prosopon (face to face, 1 Corinthians 13:12), a triple use of pros (Word Pictures in the New Testament, 5:4).
John 17:5: Because of their lack of grammatical analysis, Oneness teachers misrepresent the passage, as saying, that Jesus here, was a mere "plan" or "concept" that was with the Father, but not with the Father as a distinct Person that shared glory with Him before time:
"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was" (Gk. kai nun doxason me su pater para seauto te doxe he eichon pro tou ton kosmon einai para soi).
Conversely, the Greek preposition para (with) followed by the dative seauto (Yourself) indicates that Jesus was "near," "beside," or "in proximity of," the Father.
Colossians 1:16-17; and the Greek conjunction dia (through) followed by the genitive autou (Him) teaches that Jesus was not a mere instrument of creation, as if He were only "in view" of the Father, but rather as Paul teaches, Jesus was the Agent of Creation (cf. Jn. 1:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; Heb. 1:2, where dia is followed by the genitive).
There are many other cases that can be cited, however these above are well exampled, and demonstrative of how Oneness teachers do their listeners a grave injustice. By not representing the intended meaning of the biblical authors, they hide God's Word from unstudied Oneness devotees.
Let us heed to the authoritative words of Jesus Christ Himself:
"...for if you believe not that I AM [ego eimi] you will die in the sins of you" (Jn. 8:24; lit. Gk.).
Either Jesus is Eternal God, Creator of all things, distinct from His Father, or He is not----they both can not be right.
...ta panta dia autou [all things through Him] kai eis auton [and for Him] ektistai, kai autos estin pro panton [and He is before all things] kai ta panta en auto sunesteken...(Col. 1:16-17).
Oneness teachers should allow the text to read for itself, for it is God's Word.
Re: Why do they ignore Greek?????
Thank you!And I don't know.
CIW banned me from his forum.Wonder why?
I don't know if he kept all my latest posts up.Well at first he was fairly reasonable but the more we discussed things he became more obnoxious.I feel for those who go to his forum in search of God ans are told they are going to hell because they eat pork and what not.Pray for those people please.
Re: CIW
Man you just dont give up do you... I have asked you very nicely before not to be adveristing your board on this one, the complaints of how you run it spill over to this one. Second Jesus is God.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
"mystery" see that term? Its just what it say, you can't explain it, its a mystery... God says he shall make the wisdom of men foolishness... this is part of it, God the maker of the whole universe, came down to earth, and you can't explain that "mystery" so you reject it... that's how God works
If God the Father wants to be three and yet one.. are you saying He cannot do it, Jesus himself claimed that He was Father, for he was part of the Father from the beginning, and was God, the Word of God come alive, Perhaps his glory was so great it split into three, yet bound as one, JUST because its a mystery of God don't make it not true...
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
"Now don't be calling Christ your saviour then! Thats as plain as it gets, there is one saviour... God... so if you count Jesus as your saviour you must count Him as God... its that simple, Jesus is not your savior then, so be it."
Re: CIW
KJChristianWarrior, I don't blame you for not understanding scripture.
there is only one YHVH, but your stupid translation says it in UPPER-CASE "LORD" which confuses you no doubt about that.
There is only one Lord as in Master, yes I agree, and that Lord is Yeshua.
Isaiah 43:11 I, I am the YHVH, and besides me there is no savior.
Now we read that only The True G-d is The Savior, but watch this:
2nd Kings 13:5 Therefore the YHVH gave Israel a savior, so that they escaped from the hand of the Syrians; and the people of Israel dwelt in their homes as formerly.
King Yehoahaz is called a "Savior" by The True G-d himself; does this make King Yehoahaz to be G-d? Is there Two Saviors now?
The King is how The True G-d was saving, The True G-d sent that King to do G-ds' saving.
1st John 4:14 and we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world.
Same thing, so as the King is called what only The True G-d is called, so is Christ in the same manner.
You want to play scripture tennis?
2nd Samuel 3:18 Now then bring it about; for the YHVH has promised David, saying, by the hand of my servant David I will save my people Israel from the hand of the Philistines, and from the hand of all their enemies.
We see that The True G-d said he will save his people by David, now watch closely.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
We see that this time, The True G-d saves us through his Son who is Yeshua.
And another reminder: 1st John 4:14 and we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world.
So are there TWO saviors or is there ONE savior? Ill let you do the thinking because I already know.
What Would Jesus Do?
I doubt that Jesus would turn anyone away who honestly was seeking the truth.
That is what you do when you ban people from a forum that you claim is to preach God's Word. You are judging them, and denying them the ability to seek God.
Devarim 6:4 "ListeN Yisrael, YHVH our God, YHVH is ONE" Is Unsullied Monotheism That Does Not Support Unity For Another.
KingJehu
Unregistered User
(9/10/02 8:52 pm) Reply
CIW
CIW that savior talked of in
2nd Kings 13:5 Therefore the YHVH gave Israel a savior, so that they escaped from the hand of the Syrians; and the people of Israel dwelt in their homes as formerly.
IS NOT taking of a savior of their soul but to their city... Here is why I believe in my heart Jesus is God. I want you to adress each one of these issues one by one since you believe i am lacking in study and knowledge of the word... maybe you can help me, don't leave one unexplained... and DONT come back with well it says this but REALLY means this.. thats crap. Don't give that I dont have the time either... you bit this apple... now chew. So now refute all my numbered post in order and show me how I am wrong.
#1 Hebrews 1:1-2. God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image,after our likeness:
John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
"Genesis 1:26 is the first time the bible mentions Christ as far as I'm concern. If you say no then your going to have to show me where in the bible this other spirit is, that made man with God. I SHOW'D YA MINE !!! lol"
#2 "It is clear by john chap 1 that nothing was made without Christ. Now unless God needs someone to help make things, Christ must be the actual word of God made alive?."
#3 Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
#4 Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
#5 John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
WOULD you claim that title... I AM? Be very careful with what your responce is Child of God
#6 "Here is what Father has to say about Jesus. EXPLAIN what the passage means then."
Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
#7 "There it is again, Christ made the world. Yet God created the world?"
1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
"Christ is the brightness of his glory, and the express image of Gods person. You say but God isn't a person. Thats Gods whole point, part of him came down as person!"
1:4-6 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
#8 "Only God is to be worshipped, so why are they worshipping Christ?"
1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
#9 "God called him God! woooo wait a freak'in minute, God is calling someone else God? NOT on your life, He is calling a part of him God. Just because we can't understand how God can be three in one doesn't mean He can't do it does it? How weak is the God you pray to? If God wants to be three and yet one, you gonna be the one to tell him He can't?"
1:9-10 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
#10 "There it is again... Christ creating the earth and the heavens. And God calling Christ Lord, explain how God can have a Lord?"
Here is the translation:
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, "Qeovß" is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom .(9) Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God "Qeovß", even thy God "Qeovß", hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (10) And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
There God is talking to Jesus Christ, He calls him "Qeovß" (Qeovß is the root greek word and equals Theos) "Thy throne, O Qeovß, is for ever and ever: AND Qeovß is used in all the Hebrew verses before then, when talking about God. So here we have God calling Christ "Qeovß" (God,) when He himself is "Qeovß" (God) Then we have this to look back on. Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy (God) "Qeovß", and him only shalt thou serve.
So there "Qeovß" is used to denote the one and only Highest God, by Jesus, yet God calls Jesus "Qeovß." Do the math. "Qeovß" in fact is used over 1000 times to specify God Highest, and He used it when calling Jesus, God. Not only that but this. John 21:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my "Qeovß"(God)." Thomas called Jesus "Qeovß" God too.
Here in Hebrews we have Heb 1:10) And, Thou, Lord, "Kuvrioß or Kurios" in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Yet the bible uses it "Kuvrioß" (Lord) to denote Father. i.e. Mat. 4:10. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the "Kuvrioß" (Lord) thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. So Jesus calls Father "Kuvrioß" and Father calls Jesus "Kuvrioß" so "Kuvrioß = God = Jesus"
Now some are going to say "well but others used them to call others god or lord." and they will be right, BUT I don't care what others call Jesus and God, only what they call each other. And who they don't adress anyone but each other that.
#11 Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
"That is clear and amounts to the same as the Hebrew text. Not only does it call him The mighty God, (God = Original Word - la - Transliterated Word - 'el - Definition - 1. god, god-like one, mighty one. a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes b) angels c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations) d) God, the one true God, Jehovah. 'La' was used many many times in the bible as the title of God. Gen.46:3 And he said, I am God 'La', the God'La' of thy father: fear not to go down into Egypt; for I will there make of thee a great nation: (Is just one of many place La or 'el was used) Who is it about? But also The everlasting Father NOW even jews "orthodox and even most non-orthos" count that as the Messiah to come, yet we Christians know He already came, so you must show me where he was a Father... He isn't the Christian's Father, we are His Bride, "The Church" So it stands to reason if common sense is to prevail that the Spirit is trying to bestow that Christ is Everlasting, Father, and La 'el "God"
#12 Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name
Immanuel. Immanuel = (Original Word) 'lawnmm[' = (Transliterated Word) '`Immanuw'el' = (Definition) Immanuel = "God with us" or "with us is God" - symbolic and prophetic name of the Messiah, the Christ, prophesying that He would be born of a virgin and would be 'God with us'
#13 Mathew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Emmanuel = (Original) 'Word' = ĊEmmanouhvl (Word Origin) = of Hebrew origin - lawnmm[!!!!"God with us." Some people trying to tear down the word say Emmanuel doesn't mean Immanuel but infact the translated word of Emmanuel was ĊEmmanouhvl which is another word in Hebrew for lawnmm[
#14 Mathew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
"There it is again, worshipping Christ! Yet He himself said this."
#15 Mathew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
#16 Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
#17 "So there He warns that only God is to be worshipped, and for him not to rebuke anyone for worshipping him would have been a grave sin if he wasn't God. Yet God himself calls Jesus, God, and sends the angels to worship him."
#18 John 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
#19 Luke 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
#20 Mark 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
#21 Mathew 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
#22 Mathew 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
#23 Mathew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
(Explain why all them verses show Christ letting them worship Him if Only God is to be worshipped?)
#24 "It goes on and on about worshipping Christ, though Christ said only God is to be worshipped. Now if Christ didn't sin, 'Peter 2:22.' and didnt correct someone for worshipping him falsely, which would have been a grave sin, He must have been God."
#25 John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
"Now unless Christ lied He and Father are one, not Father in me, But one."
#26 Mathew 22:41-46 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
Below is what Jesus was talking about, and you'll note that King David knew and called Jesus Lord before Jesus was ever born. The King of Israel, the victor over Goliath calling someone else Lord? Jesus pointed to it and the Jews couldn't answer it, because to do so, they would have to count Jesus as God."
#27 So explian to me what and why Jesus said all this to them... here is the passage He was talking about.
: Psalms 110:1-4 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek
#28 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
#29 "mystery" see that term? Its just what it say, you can't explain it, its a mystery... God says he shall make the wisdom of men foolishness... this is part of it, God the maker of the whole universe, came down to earth, and they can't explain that "mystery" so they reject it... that's how God works WIC when he doenst want you to know something he makes it a mystery to YOU. nOW EXPLAIN that passage.
#30 If God the Father wants to be three and yet one.. are you saying He cannot do it, Jesus himself claimed that He was Father, for he was part of the Father from the beginning, and was God, the Word of God come alive, Perhaps his glory was so great it split into three, yet bound as one, JUST because its a mystery of God don't make it not true...
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
#31 "Now don't be calling Christ your saviour then! Thats as plain as it gets, there is one saviour... God... so if you count Jesus as your saviour you must count Him as God... and dont use that lame attempt where a few times it used savior for a cause, we count Christ as our saviour of our souls and all things not just one thing, also show me where they worshipped the one on 2nd kings. "
#32 Only God can forgive sin folks... explain how Jesus could forgive a mans sin and yet not have sinned? "
Luke 5:17-25 And it came to pass on a certain day, as he was teaching, that there were Pharisees and doctors of the law sitting by, which were come out of every town of Galilee, and Judaea, and Jerusalem: and the power of the Lord was present to heal them.
And, behold, men brought in a bed a man which was taken with a palsy: and they sought means to bring him in, and to lay him before him.
And when they could not find by what way they might bring him in because of the multitude, they went upon the housetop, and let him down through the tiling with his couch into the midst before Jesus.
And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.
"Yet Jesus did it." Luke 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
"It belongs to God, Jesus sure wasn't born when this was wrote, yet he did it.
Daniel 9:9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;
#33 "It belongs to God, and Jesus did it because He was God in the flesh, call Him an extension of God's spirit sent down to mankind, call Him the Word of God come alive, but call Him God. EXPLAIN how Christ can forgive a mans sin if he wasnt God, the Jews killed Him for just such acts because he made himself out to be God, was Jesus lying?
#34 "Thomas called Him God, and it would have been a grave sin for Jesus not to correct him. RIGHT?"
John 20:28-29 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
#35 Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
"Which he purchased with his OWN blood! How could God have purchased it with His own blood if Christ was on the cross and not God? Explain?"
John 14:8-9 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
#36 "THAT says it all! If you Christians can't see what Jesus is saying there I guess the Holy Spirit is leading us down different study paths. God and him, though separate, are the same. You think mans DNA is something, bet your last dollar Fathers is awsome, and spiritual! Now you explain how Christ calls himself Father... its the fulfillment of Isa 9:6 by the way... Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
#37 "Thats God talking, go back to 12:1 see for yourself. ' and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, ' Sums it up! I don't know how He does it. Don't ask me that, ask your Father in heaven how He does the things He does, or why. All I know is if He wants to be three and yet one, He will. By faith, I believe He can. Do you? So explain to me why God says "they they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him" was God lying.
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
#38 "equal with God. Almighty God. God the Highest. How can anyone be equal with Him?"
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
#39"Again there it is, The word of God saying Jesus is equal with God, yet God is Almighty God... so how does He do it. When God speaks universes are born. So how can Christ be equal with God?"
Psalms 45:6-7 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
#40"There He said it, 'therefore God, thy God, hath anointed' and so it was from the beginning." God calling someone else God, not on your life, its God calling part of Him, Him, He is layinf claim to His Word as Him. So explain to me How can God call Christ God?"
"So lets recap. Gen 1:26 says God said to someone, 'Let us make man,'John 1:1-3 Say Nothing was made without Jesus.' King David called him God more then once. Isaiah called him God... more then once. God says there is no saviour besides him. Yet Jesus is our saviour. John calls Him God. Thomas Calls Him God. Paul calls him God. Only God can forgive sin, and Jesus did. No one can be equal with God Almighty, and Jesus is equal to him. Jesus told Phillip if you have seen me, you have seen the Father. No one but God is to be worshipped, and Jesus was worshipped. Last and surely not least, God calls Him God."
And dont give me that crud about God can't get the written word to the english masses the way He wanted to... how weak is your God, that He can't get the gosple to the english peoples the way he wanted... and please dont use insults on this board anymore or statements such as this, people see right through them...
[qoute] KJChristianWarrior, I don't blame you for not understanding scripture. [/qoute]
Thats so not right to do such things, if I am lacking in knowledge the posts will bear the record of it, your Ad Homs are not needed. So please explain all them verses... you can use the Youngs Literal Translation or the NASB if you feel some of the KJV verses are not translated right... or we can go to the Orthodox Greek, but you just saying they are out of translation dont amount to a hill of beans... PROVE they are.
Registered User
Posts: 100
(9/11/02 12:08 am) Reply
The Son was never The True G-d nor will he ever be.
Genesis 1:26-27 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
2nd Kings 13:5 Therefore the YHVH gave Israel a savior, so that they escaped from the hand of the Syrians; and the people of Israel dwelt in their homes as formerly.
The YHVH gave Israel a savior as he gave the world a savior.
Psalms 45:6-7 Your divine throne endures for ever and ever. Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity; you love righteousness and hate wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.
Question: If Yeshua is not God then why is he called God by God, Hebrews 1:8
Answer: Yeshua is called Elohim by God. However, Moses was also called Elohim by God. Elohim means God. Hebrews 1:8-9 is a quote from psalms 45:6-7 Any good bible will state this. Lets look at the verses first.
Psalms 45:6-7 Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity; 7you love righteousness and hate wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions;
Hebrews 1:8-9 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions."
We see, "your throne oh God", is not part of the quote. The Hebrew's verse, is saying that psalms 45 is about Yeshua. So indeed, God does call his Son Elohim. But notice in verse 9 of Hebrews, YOUR GOD anointed you with oil of gladness above your fellows. Thus, Yeshua has a God. Hence, when God calls his SON Elohim, he was not referring to him as God almighty, nor part of the Godhead, since God does not have a GOD. But, we see here in verse 9 this elohim has a God. For all mighty men, that are set up like judges, are called Elohim by God. Let's look at some examples.
Exodus 7:1 The Lord said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.
Hebrew literally says, See I have mad you god to Pharaoh. We understand when Elohim is used to man, it is calling him a mighty one. God also gives Moshe his OWN prophet. Only God has prophets. So, is Moshe also God now? Is Moshe part of the Godhead? NO!
Psa 82:2,6 "How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? (Selah) 6 I say, "You are gods, children of the Most High, all of you;
Messiah tells the Judges, the law says you are gods, but you tell me I blaspheme for saying I am SON OF GOD. High men were called Elohim. This is why God called Yeshua, Elohim. However, God did not call him part of the Godhead, for God does not have a God and as we see in Hebrews 1:9 Yeshua has a God.
Psalms 110:1-4 The YHVH says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool." The YHVH sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your foes! Your people will offer themselves freely on the day you lead your host upon the holy mountains. From the womb of the morning like dew your youth will come to you. The YHVH has sworn and will not change his mind, "You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchiz'edek."
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
When was The Son called Immanuel? Id like to see one scripture where he was called Immanuel.
I can however show you a scripture where King of Assyria was called Immanuel. Read Isaiah 8:8.
G-d was in Christ and with Christ, read Acts 10:38 and Colossians 1:19-20 and if that is not enough then read the whole New Testament.
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child was born, to us a son was given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
John 20:28-29 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe."
I explain why The Son was called G-d here and there in the link above.
Isaiah 43:11 I, I am the YHVH, and besides me there is no savior.
I already explained this.
Daniel 9:9-10 To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness; because we have rebelled against him, and have not obeyed the voice of the YHVH our God by following his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.
I have no problem with this scripture.
Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of compassion and supplication, so that, when they look on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a first-born.
I have no problem with this scripture.
Mathew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel (which means, God with us).
I have no problem with this scripture.
Mathew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Begone, Satan! for it is written, `You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"
Yeshua is quoting as you can see it says for it is written.
Deuteronomy 6:13 You shall fear the YHVH your God; you shall serve him, and swear by his name.
Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered him, "It is written, `You shall worship the YHVH your God, and him only shall you serve.'"
Yeshua is quoting as you can see it says It is written.
Deuteronomy 6:13 You shall fear the YHVH your God; you shall serve him, and swear by his name.
Luke 5:17-26 On one of those days, as he was teaching, there were Pharisees and teachers of the law sitting by, who had come from every village of Galilee and Judea and from Jerusalem; and the power of the Lord was with him to heal. And behold, men were bringing on a bed a man who was paralyzed, and they sought to bring him in and lay him before Jesus; but finding no way to bring him in, because of the crowd, they went up on the roof and let him down with his bed through the tiles into the midst before Jesus. And when he saw their faith he said, "Man, your sins are forgiven you." And the scribes and the Pharisees began to question, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God only?" When Jesus perceived their questionings, he answered them, "Why do you question in your hearts? Which is easier, to say, `Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, `Rise and walk'? But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" -- he said to the man who was paralyzed -- "I say to you, rise, take up your bed and go home." And immediately he rose before them, and took up that on which he lay, and went home, glorifying God. And amazement seized them all, and they glorified God and were filled with awe, saying, "We have seen strange things today."
Luke 7:48 And he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
I have no problem with these scriptures.
They didnt understand that Yeshua received authority from G-d. He tells them But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins.
Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power; how he went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
John 1:1-13,14 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. The same was in the beginning with God; all things were made through it, and without it was not anything made that was made.
John 5:18-47 This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God. Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever he does, that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all that he himself is doing; and greater works than these will he show him, that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. "Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself, and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. "I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true; there is another who bears witness to me, and I know that the testimony which he bears to me is true. You sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. Not that the testimony which I receive is from man; but I say this that you may be saved. He was a burning and shining lamp, and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light. But the testimony which I have is greater than that of John; for the works which the Father has granted me to accomplish, these very works which I am doing, bear me witness that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness to me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen; and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent. You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. I do not receive glory from men. But I know that you have not the love of God within you. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; it is Moses who accuses you, on whom you set your hope. If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?"
I have no problem with this scripture.
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."
I have no problem with this scripture for I know Yeshua was before Abraham.
John 14:8-10 Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, `Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
I have no problem with The Father speaking through the Son.
Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son.
I have no problem with G-d purchasing us with his blood (Jesus flesh) unless you believe spirit can bleed.
Just like my brother is my blood, and my father is my blood and my mother is my blood.
Philippians 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
I have no problem with The Son being at the Right hand of The True G-d for we read The Son will give up this position, I can explain this further here.
1 Timothy 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
I have no problem with this scripture.
Hebrews 1:1-12 In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs. For to what angel did God ever say, "Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee"? Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"? And again, when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him." Of the angels he says, "Who makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire." But of the Son he says, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, thy God, has anointed thee with the oil of gladness beyond thy comrades." And, "Thou, Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of thy hands; they will perish, but thou remainest; they will all grow old like a garment, like a mantle thou wilt roll them up, and they will be changed. But thou art the same, and thy years will never end."
I have no problem with this scripture.
The True G-d created through his Son.
Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ. KJV
Revelation 21:6 And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment.
I have no problem with The Father speaking through the Son.
Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
I have no problem with The Father speaking through the Son.
Everything else that is not answered should be answered here here.
Some advice, learn how to put things together, your post looks like trash slapped together by a 3 year old.
Registered User
Posts: 101
(9/11/02 12:14 am) Reply
The Son was never The True G-d nor will he ever be.
Hey BoardOwner, why did you turn off the dit option?
Everything else that is not answered should be answered here here.
Trinitarians claim that The Father is his own being, The Son is his own being, and The Holy Spirit is his own being, so we get three beings and therefore Trinitarians are Pagans.
If The Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit are all three in one that share the same Spirit as Trinitarians claim, What makes them their own individuals?
Devarim 6:4 "ListeN Yisrael, YHVH our God, YHVH is ONE" Is Unsullied Monotheism That Does Not Support Unity For Another.
KingJehu
Unregistered User
(9/12/02 3:37 am) Reply
CIW
Hey I made it very easy... I numbered the questions....
1 2 3 4...
All you have to do is this...
Answer to #1 is... and then explain it. Don't give me a verse to explain it without explaining how the verse explains it and don't give me a link... were here on this board... its a simple
Answer to #2 is... etc etc etc...
nothing has changed on this board... I am the founder of the board... what do you think the KJ infront of KJChristianWarrior is? So nice try but dont try that either, just answer...
Answer to #3 is... thats not that hard to do, and try not to give that, you have to understand hebrew or greek to understand the bible... YOUR god might be so weak He can't get the word to the english masses just the way he wants but my God is not a weak God... Want God only wants the Hebrew speaking and greek speaking people to know His will, thats stupid... you can use the KJV, NIV, NASB or the Youngs Literal Translation... or most any other you like other then like the watchtower book of lies... nwt... But to say God is so weak that He can't even get the word to the english masses and the rest of the world just the way He wants is just plain stupid. How weak a god do you pray to, one that can't even get his message out to the world?
KingJehu well said
King I thought your arguments were very powerfull and well thought out. You explained with substance and pillars.
CIW, well,.......................
Sometimes KingJehu some people do not want to see the truth as I have seen in some christian message boards.
Sometimes they play tag with Ad Homenims and we know the other signs as well when they do not want to really debate. One thing I cannot stand is when a person uses other authority to do their talking for them without giving their own ideas as well.
It is good to use authority but to paste up what someone else says and make it their only argument is showing me they are too lazy or they do not really understand what they are saying....
I really think that some of these posts are so far your best work that I have seen. I was very impressed with your logic....
I can say one thing KJ, while you have been gone you have been doing more than "gone fishing" lol....
Keep the studying up dude, it shows....
Top
KingJehu
Unregistered User
(9/18/02 1:58 am) Reply
Topper...
Well thank you brother... and you as well, i hope are doing okay. Things have kinda I do try to give the answer I believe the Spirit tells me, that is in the word, I don't mind when WIC or others wise to insult me because of the word of God, in fact I rejoice in it. I can pray some would not rely on man made doctrine, or worse yet make up their own, but in the end it is God that will or will not call them to the truth, and His living word left. Bless you and all yours Tophat... glad to hear from you... sometime stop by the rooms and we'll take them on like in the old days!
Jesus loves ya!
KJ
ps. ole blood seems to have a handle on WIC... though
yourstruly
Unregistered User
(11/30/02 2:17 pm) Reply
RE:Jesus is Master
Y.A.N.
Like the man ib the bible who answered his door three times with time when someone knocked & didn't listen then turned then away. You asked for an answe to your question 3 times & got 3 answer yet you refuse to listen.
I say if you chose not to read & verify these truths the consider what you quote:
"1Jo 4:15 Whosoever Shall Confess That Jesus Is The Son of God, God Dwelleth In Him, And He In God."
Jesus knew he was the son of God therefore he IS God according to 1Jo 4:15. And as I confess Jesus is the son of God, I must also be God.
Not seeing I-you relationships while reading confuses J.O. 
Re: Why do they ignore Greek?????
RE:Jesus is Master
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