Yes it does take an act on mans part... to not love the darkness...
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 285
(4/19/02 12:41 am) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
OK. So how could anyone (whose worship was demonic and who suppressed the truth in unrighteousness) have a "chance," apart from being told about the true God?
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
Now where bacl to rom 1:20 again... God says they know deep down what is good and evil, just chose to love the evil... and reject the good. A rapest knows deep down its wrong... but would rather rape then do right... therefore God keeps the truth from Him... 2thess 2:11-12...
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 289
(4/19/02 1:16 am) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
Yes, people know when they are doing evil, how does that give them a "chance" to believe in the true God?
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
because if they chose to turn from that evil... and wish to shun the darkness God will give them the light... Christ... who in turn testifies through the spirit "quickening" about God... to their hearts... but the initial want to turn from darkness is theirs... BUT in reality thats the second step because God tookt he first step by giving them the knowledge of good and evil.
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 294
(4/19/02 2:00 am) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
So the gentiles who worshipped devils could be saved as long as they worshipped devils in a way that wanted to turn from evil?
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
If your worshipping devils... you don't want to turn from darkness... once they stopped... as you said, even the indians of the west, some of them could have been saved...
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 303
(4/19/02 10:49 pm) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
Nope:
1 Cor. 10:19-20 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
The idols that the Gentiles worshipped were devils. How did they have a "chance"? Answer; they didn't. Sorry. They just didn't. Not unless you are willing to admit that God doesn't need man's help to save and can regenerate a heart and apply the faith of Christ, apart from anything done by humans...which of course you are not. So, they had no chance.
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
Oh please MonkeeSage you just proved my point MOST of Pauls coverts worshipped devils before he came to them... same with the others... and you said the American Indians could have been saved if Christ regenerated their heart... and that was before 1400's before the gospel had reached the new lands... but the others God couldn't have done that to huh?
How's that work?
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 309
(4/20/02 2:20 am) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
Don't see anyhting about "most" in there. I see "eqnh"--"Gentiles." Gentiles worshipped devils, all the idols of the Gentile nations, were nothing but facemasks for devils. Paul says nothing about knowingly worshipping, he says the idols they worship. No Gentiles ever thought that their idols were evil devils, they thought they were Janus, or Ashtoreth, or Diana of the Ephesians, not devils. Paul says they were really devils.
As I've stated I'm asking about your beliefs. If you would like to know what I believe, feel free to start a new post or thread; and I've already stated elsewhere that I believe no all are given a "chance," some are left in darkness. As for your belief--that everyone is given a "chance"--If they have a "chance" please explain how.
How did a Ammonite (Deu. 23:3-4) in the third generation have a "chance"?
-J
S.D.G
Edited by: MonkeeSage at: 4/20/02 5:07:10 am
Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Monkeesage you write: Don't see anyhting about "most" in there. I see "ethnh"--"Gentiles." Gentiles worshipped devils, all the idols of the Gentile nations, were nothing but facemasks for devils.
Before you said Gentiles meant Christians, now it means devil worshippers... your getting crossed again. BUT Okay so Gentiles means devil worshippers...
Luke 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Galations 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Ephessians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Acts 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
(So then the gentiles are not Christ like you say now, though before it meant Christian... I can dig up the statement ya made saying that if ya like... so now gentiles means devil worshippers... okay... well they can be saved as well.)
Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
(Right there shows we have a choice in the matter...)
Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
(Again, why should the election fear Him, we can't go to hell, and true to why do those bound to hell need to fear Him, they are not the election and cannot be saved so who is this warning to?)
How did a Ammonite (Deu. 23:3-4) in the third generation have a "chance"?
There is a Hebrew rite of Passage, somewhere in the first five books, were they perform a cermony to become of the "12 tribes" once this is taken... they are no longer of there people or land but become Gods is how...
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 315
(4/20/02 5:46 am) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
How did Gentiles have a chance before they heard of Christ (which was the whole point of my question)?
How did people who never heard of the ceremony or of the 12 tribes or of YHVH, have a chance?
-J
S.D.G
Edited by: MonkeeSage at: 4/20/02 5:47:05 am
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 316
(4/20/02 5:50 am) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
Example: God could have made it so that the Gospel was legal in China 500 years ago (by forknowing which rulers would make which decisison, etc. etc.), but has not chosen to make it so.
How have those Chinese people, for the past 500 years, had a "chance"?
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
No your the one that said gentiles means Christians now your switching it up ans saying they can't be saved because they worshipped devils...
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 317
(4/20/02 6:18 am) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
Could be, but how does everyone have a "chance"?
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
Could be, but how does everyone have a "chance"?
Hosea 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
Mathew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
ALSO look... He even wanted the worse whoredom lady of them all to repent... this blows Calvinism away too, for He even wanted her, the one Jehu took out, the worse women in the bible... to be saved.
Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
(She could have repented, and turned to the Lord.)
Mathew 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
(Again clearly they had the free will to be saved.)
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 321
(4/20/02 6:45 am) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
How has every single person who has ever existed had a "chance" to be saved, specifically, those who have never heard of YHVH?
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
Hosea 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
We done been over this... same way He did Abraham, Adam, etc etc etc... by writing His laws on the hearts... and why would He do that? Because they turned from the darkness... by the way Abraham wasn't a jew...
MonkeeSage Registered User
Posts: 327
(4/20/02 8:09 am) Reply
Re: Everyone deserves a chance!
How has every single person who has ever existed had a "chance" to be saved, specifically, those who have never heard of YHVH?