You have proven NOTHING. At the most all you proved was that you LOVE to TRY to put people down as well as their faith that they believe in. Like i said...Do you see me dissing born agains? Cathlics? Muslems? NO! We think that its good that there are actually people in this screwed up world that still believe that there is a God! All we do is Preach what we believe and what we believe is in the bible. Thats it! End of story. I'm very sorry you think that Jehovah Witnesses are EVIL or whatever, but hey...thats your opinion. But maybe one day you will see that we arent all that bad or whatever it is you think. So in short...I will not be coming here any longer becuz there is no need since you think that Jehovah Witnesses are a false religion...I mean why would I come here if i want to always get dissed? Kinda stupid dontcha think? So this is goodbye to all ya'z and I hope you all have a nice life.
avseven Registered User
Posts: 2
(1/7/03 9:57 pm) Reply
Re: Are J.Ws Christians?
JW's teach their naive, biblically illiterate little drones, that there is no hell. Such fools die, and wake up in hell, for rejecting Jesus as Saviour. Their fate is eternal. Burning forever, in a lake of fire, with the devil, and his angels.
pattimo
pattimo . . . if you ever do come back here and read this note this, when one points out something un-biblical a group of people or a cult does, that does not mean they hate them, as you may well think. But it is for the sake of their soul, and their families. Next the Kingdom Hall followers do not believe the bible as written, or they wouldnt have made so many changes and come out with the NWT, which is so far off the greek that its scary how anyone couldn't see it. Now I am not saying this to try and hurt your feelings, if you ever do indeed come back here, but just to let you know, to one that knows the will of God that is written in the word, to NOT say how unbiblical the JW teachings are, would be an injustice to his own beliefs.
Gods blessings to you.
KingJehu.
Mesohapi Registered User
Posts: 1
(5/30/03 12:01 pm) Reply
Re: JW.s believe in Christ !
Pat,
YOU said : " 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. >>
We are forever confessing that Jesus appeared in the flesh. John must have been one of us!!
JW"S do NOT believe that Jesus Christ appeared in the flesh on his ressurection. That denies the diety of Christ.
( The Watchtower organization says that Jesus did not rise from the dead in the same body he died in (You Can Live Forever on Paradise Earth, p. 143-44). Instead, it says that He rose as a spirit creature and that the material body of Jesus was taken away by God the Father. )
It is obvious from Jesus' own words in John 2:19-21 that He would raise Himself from the dead:
"Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20The Jews therefore said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" 21But He was speaking of the temple of His body."
John 2:19-21 is a clear prophecy of Christ. Note that He said He would raise up "this temple." John the apostle clarifies for us that "this temple" was actually Jesus physical body. Therefore, Jesus' physical body was raised from the dead.
Jesus said, "Touch me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have" (Luke 24:39). You must note that Jesus did not say, "flesh and blood." He said, "flesh and bones." This is because Jesus’ blood was shed on the cross. The life is in the blood and it is the blood that cleanses from sin: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul" (Lev. 17:11). See also, Gen. 9:4; Deut. 12:23; and John 6:53-54. Jesus was pointing out that He was different. He had a body, but not a body of flesh and blood. It was flesh and bones.
Jesus was God in flesh (John 8:58; John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5- .
"Destroy this temple and in three days, I will raise it up" (John 2:19). Since He was speaking of His body says John in verse 21, then it must be true; Jesus rose from the dead in the same body He died in. Also, at His ascension people watched Him rise to be with the Father. They saw His body ascend. That is why it can be said that Jesus, the man, is the mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5). It isn’t an angel or a spirit creature that is the mediator. It is Jesus the man.
Mesohapi
PS. I found it interesting that in the WT book Draw close to Jehovah, we find Chapter 9, pages 87-96, entitled “Christ, the Power of God,” in which the JW leaders tell us all about Jesus. Jesus’ name and the title “Christ” appear the following number of times: “Christ,” 3 times; “Jesus Christ,” 1 time; and plain old “Jesus,” 73 times! His titles—The Lord Jesus Christ” and “Our Lord Jesus Christ” or simply “Lord Jesus” or “Lord”—do not appear even once!
Ask yourself why not? What is the significants of calling Jesus Lord?
What is the biblical definition of Lord?
Mesohapi
Mesohapi Registered User
Posts: 2
(5/30/03 12:26 pm) Reply
Re: J.Ws believe in Christ.
Flesh,
The jest of it is holidays are of pagan origin. Birthday's are not celebrated because the Pharaoh chopped of John's head on his birthday. But it's not mention that he also released someone from death in prison. It gets pretty in depth.
see www.spotlightministries.o...thdays.htm
The Jehovah's Witnesses say: "Birthdays (and all Christian holidays) are wicked and not to be celebrated under any circumstances."
Have the Jehovah's Witness read Genesis 40:20-22 and say, "It is true that the Bible records wicked people doing wicked things on their birthdays, just as wicked people do wicked things on all the other days of the week. But it is also true that the Bible never condemns the celebration of birthdays. In fact, many good and great Bible characters celebrated birthdays, including John the Baptist's parents (Luke 1:57-59); the heavenly angels and shepherds when Jesus Christ was born (Luke 2:8-15); Job and his children (Job 1:4, 5) and so on. Since the Bible does not prohibit birthday celebrations, and since many good Christians celebrated birthdays in the Bible, doesn't it seem a bit silly for the Watch Tower to impose this prohibition upon it's members?"
It also should be noted that the JW's used to celebrate Christmas with the WT's blessings :
Yes, we should celebrate Christmas Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1904, p364 -- "Even though Christmas is not the real anniversary of our Lord's birth, but more properly the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting (Luke 1:2 , nevertheless, since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - "Christmas day.""
No, we shouldn't celebrate Christmas www.watchtower.com, 2000 -- "Jesus was not born on December 25. He was born about October 1, a time of year when shepherds kept their flocks out-of-doors at night. (Luke 2:8-12) Jesus never commanded Christians to celebrate his birth. Rather, he told his disciples to memorialize, or remember, his death. (Luke 22:19, 20) Christmas and its customs come from ancient false religions. The same is true of Easter customs, such as the use of eggs and rabbits. The early Christians did not celebrate Christmas or Easter, nor do true Christians today."
And further more, the Jehovah's Witnesses go on to state that if you celebrate Christmas, then you are not a true Christian. Remember, in the 1st quote, in 1904 they were celebrating Christmas. Since the Watchtower says those who celebrate Christmas are not true Christians, we can conclude that there were no true Christians in the Jehovah's Witness religion even back then.
The Watchtower's whole argument against the celebration of Christmas is because we weren't commanded to do it. Well, where is the commandment against it? Heaven forbid we choose to celebrate the arrival of our Savior.
Happy Birthday!
Mespohapi
Mesohapi Registered User
Posts: 3
(5/30/03 1:10 pm) Reply
Re: Are J.Ws Christians?
"Personality changes have been reported about some who have had transfusions."
Alien abductions have been reported as well.
"This is not surprising if as Leviticus teaches us; "The life (or soul) of all flesh resides in the blood." (Le 17:11)
You wouldn't want to take someone elses 'soul' into your system would you? He might be a crook or a queer. If so, how would these problems affect you?"
You added soul or the NWT added soul. The word soul in NOT in the Bible. Read Lev. 17:8-13
Lev. 17:11 says For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the alter to make an attonment for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul.
If blood WAS the soul, then how could it make attonment FOR the soul?
"If these things are true, then it's not a bit of wonder Jehovah came across so strongly on this issue and even caused the commandment to be carried over into the Law of Grace. (Acts 15.20)"
Keep reading... Act 15:28,29 say it also, but you forgot abot the part that say to abstain from meat too. Are you a Vegan?
Also note the WT's position on organ transplants :
AS WITH BLOOD, THE WTS originally had no objections to organ transplants. In a Questions from Readers section in The Watchtower, Aug. 1, 1961, page 480, the question about organ transplants is answered pointedly:
"• Is there anything in the Bible against giving one’s eyes (after death) to be transplanted to some living person?—L. C., United States.
The question of placing one’s body or parts of one’s body at the disposal of men of science or doctors at one’s death for purposes of scientific experimentation or replacement in others is frowned upon by certain religious bodies. However, it does not seem that any Scriptural principle or law is involved. It therefore is something that each individual must decide for himself. If he is satisfied in his own mind and conscience that this is a proper thing to do, then he can make such provision, and no one else should criticize him for doing so. On the other hand, no one should be criticized for refusing to enter into any such agreement."
In view of the unorthodox views on medical practices demonstrated by the WTS on earlier questions, it is not surprising that it found some "Biblical principles" addressing this question the next time it came up, in 1967:
"• Is there any Scriptural objection to donating one's body for use in medical research or to accepting organs for transplant from such a source?-W. L., U.S.A.
. . . When there is a diseased or defective organ, the usual way health is restored is by taking in nutrients. The body uses the food eaten to repair or heal the organ, gradually replacing the cells. When men of science conclude that this normal process will no longer work and they suggest removing the organ and replacing it directly with an organ from another human, this is simply a shortcut. Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human. That is cannibalistic. However, in allowing man to eat animal flesh Jehovah God did not grant permission for humans to try to perpetuate their lives by cannibalistically taking into their bodies human flesh, whether chewed or in the form of whole organs or body parts taken from others."
(The Watchtower, Nov. 15, 1967, p. 702)
Seem like the light got brighter & brighter then darker.
An orange in the dark in still round!
Mesophapi
Mesohapi Registered User
Posts: 4
(5/30/03 1:19 pm) Reply
Re: JW.s believe in Christ !
Ok Pat,
I am not a JW. I confess that Jesus is the Christ & Lord. So I am born of God.
What does 'Born of God" mean to you? To the JW's? (I mean this to be 21 different questions.)
THanks,
mesohapi
Mesohapi Registered User
Posts: 5
(5/30/03 2:56 pm) Reply
Re: Are J.Ws Christians?
Pat,
"Agreed, if Russell really did get his teachings from the Throne, they would be perfect.
I'm not too sure of what he taught, my studies don't go back that far. I know his first prediction of the coming of the Lord was around 1887. Of course we don't hear anything about that now. When that passed, his second prediction was 1914. We have been stuck with that date ever since, but twe are not told to teach it any more."
You agree then tht this was a false teaching.Maybe you should go back that far. After all, Russell does /did represent the WT. If the WT claims not to be infallible then how can it represent Jehovah as unquestionable truth. Even going so far as to say, the only truth. You can't even understand the bible without it!!
"It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose." 1939 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, p. 85."
Make haste to identify the visible theocratic organization of God that represents his king, Jesus Christ. It is essential for life. Doing so, be complete in accepting its every aspect." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 591.
"We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the ‘faithful and discreet slave' organization." The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981.
You may say that they read and study their Bibles and only use the Watchtower literature as a guide to understanding God’s word. But it is this very admission which condemns them because their doctrines are not found in the Bible. The proof is found, believe it or not, in the Watchtower’s own writings. Consider this quote from The Watchtower Magazine, August 15, 1981 that :
"From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." The Watchtower, August 15, 1981.
"We should eat and digest and assimilate what is set before us, without shying away from parts of the food because it may not suit the fancy of our mental taste...We should meekly go along with the Lord's theocratic organization and wait for further clarification…" The Watchtower, February 1, 1952, pp. 79-80.
Did you get that? If you read the Bible by itself, you will become a Trinitarian because that is exactly what the Watchtower is referring to here when it says "apostate doctrines." In other words, if you read the Bible alone, you will not arrive at Watchtower doctrines. This is an amazing admission by the Watchtower organization. It is clear, Jehovah's Witnesses do not get their teachings from the Bible, but from the Watchtower literature.
Soooo, if Russell said it believe it until the WT says otherwise, oops I mean receives "new light". Do you beleive it?
Is the light comming on for you yet??
Mesohapi
Mesohapi Registered User
Posts: 6
(5/31/03 11:33 am) Reply
Re: Re - JWs
I gotta ask..
Where does it say in the bible that Jesus had long hair?? I know thats how all the pictures are but historical fashion say another. I suppose you think he was white too!?
Mesohapi
Mesohapi Registered User
Posts: 7
(5/31/03 11:49 am) Reply
Re: Are J.Ws Christians?
We gotta remember, it not the JW's that we have a problem with, it's the Watchtower that has mislead them! You have to win anyone to the truth in Christ by getting personal & rude. Is that the type of christian example you want to give?
The JW is the most zeal, devote person wanting to do God's will. How many of us go th church 5+ times a week & spend 20+ hours a week evangilizing??
Yes, they are mislead with terrible lies in a horrible ORG. Lets set them sraight with LOVE.
Mesophapi brings up . . .
Mesophapi brings up some very valid points. . . well done. A reply will not be forthcoming, as a JW has a hard time contending with scripture . . .
I am a ex-jw, but that doesn't mean I all of a sudden disagree with absolutely everything the wbts teach. Indeed the witnesses are right on many points and if you look around mainstream christianity they believe much the same as the witnesses do as the bible makes it clear.
Anyway, all I wanted to say is that orthodox christianity assumes Jesus sported a nice long set of locks! How do they know?!! Jesus could have been bald for all we know! hehe
Or he could have had a nice green mohawk and and peircings on his face and an abundance of tatoos. (only joking) Point is we simply have no idea what he looked like.
If only they had cameras back in those days we would all know for sure!
Cheers
Darin
KingJehu
Unregistered User
(12/18/03 8:58 pm) Reply
JW's
JW's believe little of what a bible based Christian believes. . .
They do no see Jesus as God in the flesh for one.
They do practice exclusion and elitism.
They do not view the 144,000 in revelation as jews, but claim the bible is talking about "them"
They do not believe in scholar excepted biblessuch as the nasb kjv ylt etc etc etc, so much so they printed their own bible of lies. .
Re: Are J.Ws Christians? 
Re: JW.s believe in Christ !
.
Email This To a Friend
Topic Commands
Click to receive email notification of replies 
Click to stop receiving email notification of replies