FDNichol Registered User
Posts: 5
(10/5/02 12:14 pm) Reply
I Can Believe
To: King Jehu Your majesty has the honor of being invited to the ANSWERS TO OBJECTIONS Forum to view the latest reply to your objections about Seventh-day Adventists and their teachings in which you have charged that they have lied about certain teachings of the Bible. Yours in the blessed hope, FDNichol
KingJehu
Unregistered User
(10/6/02 10:44 am) Reply
No charge about it...
No charge about it... They have and do lie and try to cover it up, White lied, and this board is for the use of study as well so if you don't I would prefer to keep it here.
Official 7th day Adventist Creed:
#17 "The gift of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. Support is found in these Bible passages: Joel 2:28,29: Acts 2:14-21: Hebrews 1:1-3: Revelation 12:17: Revelation 19:10"
Yet the bible clearly states how we are to know a prophet:
KJV 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Deuteronomy 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Now lets take a look at White's record shall we?
"For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world . . . I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844." SELECTED MESSAGES 1 p. 63
E. G. White prophesied the world would end in 1843, 1844, 1845 & 1851: "Now time is almost finished, (1851) and what we have been 6 years in learning they will have to learn in months." EARLY WRITINGS p. 57
(White blamed her failed prophecy on the members of the Seventh-day Adventist church)
"Thus the work was hindered, and the world was left in darkness. Had the whole Adventist body united upon the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, how widely different would have been our history." SELECTED MESSAGES, Book 1, p. 299
(Yet we know what God said causes them, being a false prophet)
Concerning some of her ``revelations,'' Biederwolf, Seventh-Day Adventism, p. 8f "In one of her visions her accompanying angels told her that the time of salvation for all sinners ended in 1844. She now claims the door of mercy is still open...In another vision she discovered that women should wear short dresses with pants and she and her sister followers dressed this way for eight years. But the ridiculous custom has now been abandoned....''
"Cheese should never be introduced into the stomach'' (Testimonies to the Church, Vol. 2, page 6 .
``The use of swine's flesh is contrary to his express commandments'' (Testimonies to the Church, Vol. 2, page 96).
"Eggs should not be placed upon your table. They are an injury to your children" (Vol. 2, p. 400). "We bare positive testimony against tobacco, rich cakes, spirituous liquors, snuff, tea, coffee, flesh meats, butter, spice, mince pies..." (Vol. 3, p. 21)."Children are allowed to eat flesh meats, spices, butter, cheese, pork, rich pastry...These things do their work of deranging the stomach" (Vol. 3, p. 136). Mrs. White places "meat, butter and cheese" in the same category as tobacco, liquor, etc. This, is contrary to the Bible for Jesus Himself ate fish (Luke 24:41-43). In John 21:9-12 we find that Jesus Himself prepared flesh meat and said to His disciples, "Come and eat." The Bible tells us that Jesus ate butter (Isaiah 7:15) Mrs. White said, "Do not eat" but Jesus said, "Come and dine". Paul said, "In the latter times some shall depart from the faith...commanding to abstain from meats which God had created to be received" (1 Timothy 4:3).The Bible declares that to teach to abstain from meats is a "departing from the faith".
Your Church is founded by a false prophet, and it continues to teach these false teaching even unto this very day and your part of it, and will shake come judgment day if you are and know the truth and don't try to change the teaching to Gods will, or get out of the lying body.
There are MANY more things as well about the SDA and their falsehoods perhaps you are unware of them, you should look into your church's doctrine.
Praise Jesus!
KingJehu
FDNichol Registered User
Posts: 6
(10/12/02 8:10 am) Reply
Re: No charge about it...
After reading the critic's previous post, I am wondering whether he understood the full implications of what he stated. I have met the objections of meats and erroneous teachings at my forum, ANSWERS TO OBJECTIONS. However I didn't answer the objection of failed prophecies by Ellen G. White. It is a known fact to well-versed Bible students that prophecies comes under two categories: Conditional and Unconditional. The Bible is replete with both of these kind of prophecies. Mrs. White's failed prophecies comes under the first category namely, Conditional. Why did some of her prophecies didn't come to pass? Because conditions were not met for it to happen. As for her pronouncements about meat, butter, eggs, pastries, etc., it should be seen in the light of sound health principles. It is because of these principles and scientific studies, that Seventh-day Adventists live seven years longer than the average American which remind one of the old adage,"We are what we eat". Rich foods can cause health problems and the list of foods whether natural or junk mentioned by Mrs. White cannot be overemphasized. From time to time the news media announces new health findings that would vindicate what Ellen White urged her adherents to avoid previously. Whether one wants to agree with her or not, her pronouncements on diet is not a test of fellowship in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. One is free to hold her and her writings up in high regard or to disregard it altogether . But they do have to believe in what the Bible states that the gift of prophecy wil be active in the last days prior to Christ's second coming. Whether one chooses to believe in Ellen White as a true prophet or not is a choice they must make for themselves. If they will weigh the evidence for themselves carefully, Mrs. White would be vindicated. As for the false notion that Adventists have covered up their false teachings is countered by the fact that all of Ellen White's writings is still published today for the Biblical and historical value it provides to the Seventh-day Adventist Church and the world. So my point is: There is nothing to cover up. The history and the doctrinal development of the Seventh-day Adventist Church should be carefully considered for all its worth. The student will be richly rewarded in finding that of all Christian churches today, the teachings of Adventists are well-balanced and linked inextricably together in forming the wholistic concept of God and man. Yours in the blesssed hope, FDNichol Executive Administrator Inquisitive Fellow Christians ANSWERS TO OBJECTIONS www.pub20.ezboard.com/finquisitivefellowchristiansanswerstoobjections
FDNichol Registered User
Posts: 7
(10/12/02 8:21 pm) Reply
Re: No charge about it...
Dear fleshNblood, If you would drop www. and type the rest of the URL to ANSWERS TO OBJECTIONS, the link will work. My apology for this slight error. Now to your point concerning prophets. You stated that God is perfect and true and would not use a prophet who was or is wrong in his or her prophecies. This is the position of most anti-Adventists who wish to disparage and discredit the Seventh-day Adventist Church. What may seem wrong in the eyes of the critic may seem plausible and easily explained in the eyes of the apologist who is knowledgeable about the basic facts. So what are the basic facts? It may come as a surprise to some to think that God's promises of blessing and His threats of judgments are conditional. But the Bible is explicit on this. Such as: "At one moment I ( God ) might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; if it does evil in my sight by not obeying my voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it" - Jeremiah 18:7-10 NASB. The Bible presents a number of illustrations of the application of this principle set forth by Jeremiah. Take for instance; Jonah 3:3, 4 and its reversal or failure at Jonah 3:5, 10. How about the promise of blessing to the people of Israel to bring them to the Promised Land? Look at Exodus 6:2, 6-8 and its failure or reversal in Numbers 14: 26-34. There were Israelites who never even made it due to God's opposition or as in the KJV "breach of promise". Also consider the case of Eli the priest in 1 Samuel 2: 27-31. A promise implied and reversed or failed due to a condition of disobedience. All of these instances leads us to see the implied qualifying clause of "if" as evidences of conditional prophecy. If it is proper-and-it is-to add to these predictions a qualifying clause of "if", why is it not proper to do so with the failed or reversed prophecies of Ellen White concerning the time of Christ's coming? There are factors that affect the promise of Jesus' second coming and we can look at 2 Peter 3:9-12 and Matthew 24:14 as further proof of this. Having stated all this we can ask, have we undermined confidence in the certainty of all prophecies in the Bible by the fact that some prophecies were not fulfilled? We are not presenting a new theory regarding the predictions of the prophets in order to explain Mrs. White predictions as we do, we are simply calling attention to certain Scriptures that explicitly state that certain predictions were not fulfilled. Lovers of the Bible have had no doubt as to the dependability of its prophecies even though the record is clear that some of them have failed. Why should it be necessary to conclude that doubt is being cast on all the predictions of the prophets simply because we declare that Ellen White's predictions is similar to certain unfulfilled predictions of the Scriptures? Let us never forget that if a divine prediction has failed or God shows His "opposition", the guilt lies with us His willful children. Well does Mrs. White declare in a letter dated December 7, 1901: "We may have to remain here in this world because of insubordination many more years as did the children of Israel; but for Christ's sake, His people should not add sin to sin by charging God with the consequence of their wrong course of action" - Evangelism, p. 696. Yours in the blessed hope, FDNichol
Quote: You stated that God is perfect and true and would not use a prophet who was or is wrong in his or her prophecies. This is the position of most anti-Adventists who wish to disparage and discredit the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
I said a prophet from God would never be wrong, for he or she would be sent from God to warn His people. I did not say God would not use anyone or anything.
It seems to me, the uneducated, that the one person whom is so esteemed within the Adventist church has made numerous mistakes, and yet they are all overlooked just to defend her and your beliefs. You need not seek to make me understand, you need to look inside to ask why you do not understand that she was a false prophet.
Quote: What may seem wrong in the eyes of the critic may seem plausible and easily explained in the eyes of the apologist who is knowledgeable about the basic facts.
First, the definition of apologist as taken from dictionary.com...
A person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution.
Dude, we are not critics of God, but His humble servants. You claim to be also, but if you are then you should be trying to justify something that was so wrong so many times. If you feel it is so "easily explained" then you are wrong also.
Matthew 24:11
"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many."
Quote: So what are the basic facts? It may come as a surprise to some to think that God's promises of blessing and His threats of judgments are conditional. But the Bible is explicit on this. Such as: "At one moment I ( God ) might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; if it does evil in my sight by not obeying my voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it" - Jeremiah 18:7-10 NASB. The Bible presents a number of illustrations of the application of this principle set forth by Jeremiah. Take for instance; Jonah 3:3, 4 and its reversal or failure at Jonah 3:5, 10. How about the promise of blessing to the people of Israel to bring them to the Promised Land? Look at Exodus 6:2, 6-8 and its failure or reversal in Numbers 14: 26-34. There were Israelites who never even made it due to God's opposition or as in the KJV "breach of promise". Also consider the case of Eli the priest in 1 Samuel 2: 27-31. A promise implied and reversed or failed due to a condition of disobedience. All of these instances leads us to see the implied qualifying clause of "if" as evidences of conditional prophecy. If it is proper-and-it is-to add to these predictions a qualifying clause of "if", why is it not proper to do so with the failed or reversed prophecies of Ellen White concerning the time of Christ's coming? There are factors that affect the promise of Jesus' second coming and we can look at 2 Peter 3:9-12 and Matthew 24:14 as further proof of this. Having stated all this we can ask, have we undermined confidence in the certainty of all prophecies in the Bible by the fact that some prophecies were not fulfilled?
Dude, you sound more like a lawyer in a court of the law of man, than a servant of God, preaching His Word of love and salvation.
Quote:
We are not presenting a new theory regarding the predictions of the prophets in order to explain Mrs. White predictions as we do, we are simply calling attention to certain Scriptures that explicitly state that certain predictions were not fulfilled.
All prophesies from God WILL be fulfilled. Your Mrs. White gave specific dates that passed without fulfillment, thus she made excuses and new dates which your church was too eager to accept, rather than acknowledge that she was not from God.
[/quote]
Lovers of the Bible have had no doubt as to the dependability of its prophecies even though the record is clear that some of them have failed. [/quote]
An unfulfilled prophesy that is truly from God has not failed, it just hasn't come to pass yet. Name one prophesy that gave a specific date as did Mrs. White, that was not fulfilled.
Quote:
Why should it be necessary to conclude that doubt is being cast on all the predictions of the prophets simply because we declare that Ellen White's predictions is similar to certain unfulfilled predictions of the Scriptures?
Again, she gave specific dates. She was wrong. And then she gave new dates that were also wrong.
Ask yourself this. Why would God send us a prophet that was wrong so many times?
Quote: Let us never forget that if a divine prediction has failed or God shows His "opposition", the guilt lies with us His willful children.
Excuse me while I laugh.
Nothing that is from God ever has, or ever will, fail. God is perfect, His plans are perfect, and His love is perfect.
If God says it is so, then He would not cause His own Word to fail.
Quote: Well does Mrs. White declare in a letter dated December 7, 1901: "We may have to remain here in this world because of insubordination many more years as did the children of Israel; but for Christ's sake, His people should not add sin to sin by charging God with the consequence of their wrong course of action"
You keep quoting Mrs. White.
I will quote God and Jesus, and put my fate and faith in the Lord. He hasn't failed me yet, and He never will.
I pray that in my hours of temptation, I will not fail Him.
My the peace and love of the Lord Jesus Christ be upon all of you, today and all tomorrows.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
Albert Einstein
FDNichol Registered User
Posts: 8
(10/13/02 3:27 pm) Reply
About the URL to ANSWERS TO OBJECTIONS
Try typing http:// before the rest of the URL to visit the ANSWERS TO OBJECTIONS Forum. That's why it doesn't work. As ample time permits, I will address your response in your previous post about Ellen G. White and her failed prophecies later. I strongly feel my post about this objection was a very good answer and no amount of rebuttal or criticism can change the true facts of Seventh-day Adventist history. Until then, may God richly bless you. Yours in the blessed hope, FDNichol
I find your posts here disappointing, for several reasons. First of all, whenever I see someone talking like you are here, whether it's about SDA's or JW's or whatever; I find myself wondering whose little black book you are quoting from. It is very obvious that you have never once read all the way through YOURSELF, PERSONALLY, any SDA or Ellen G White books. The tiny snipets and half quotes you use, are typical of those who are simply parroting what someone else told them, or what they have read in some book.
God does not look at al these other denominations in quite the way you apparently do here. While you accuse them of saying others are damned, if they do not "worship like them," you yourself, condemn them here, to the flames that you yourself would wish to avoid.
If you look in your Bible, it is easy to see how God has people in all denominations. For eg.; Rev.18:4 speaking about "Babylon," (apostate churches), God says: "Come out of her MY PEOPLE." God has His people all over the place.
Your slander against the SDA's is totally unscriptural. You are taking one little Bible verse, and making a whole doctrine out of them. For eg., on your bones about the Sabbath.
You repeatedly call it "the jewish Sabbath," yet, the Bible is quite clear: "The Sabbath Of The Lord Thy God." Ex.20:10, Deut.5:14
In fact; Jesus had the custom of regularly keeping the seventh day sabbath too:
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. Luke 4:16.
In fact; Jesus Himself was a Jew; and, if you want to go to heaven, "You gonna be a Jew too."
Re: fleshnblood's posts here
Dude, I think you are confusing me with another poster here.
And, as for me, all I will EVER quote is the Bible, which is the Word of God. There is NO other path to salvation, and no person ever born on this Earth besides the Lord Jesus Christ can lead you to salvation by their works.
If all you ever quote is books other than the Bible, then try using the Bible first.
Some of my more educated brothers on this forum use the earlier versions of the Bible, along with the manuscripts, to make their points in favor of what God or Jesus said in the Bible.
I do not have their knowledge, but they can respond to you if you have a question about what they say.
And, again, NO prophet sent by God would EVER be wrong. God can use a false prophet to prove His point to His people, but He would NOT send a false prophet with a message to His people.
Heck, why send a false prophet when He can communicate directly with us through His Holy Spirit?
Peace and love of the Lord Jesus Christ be upon all of you, today and all tomorrows.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
Albert Einstein
Why you cannot explain even one thing about the above Scriptural Points I have made above is anyone's guess. Your professed quoting of texts seems to have grew legs and walked away.
You, and the owner of this forum take texts and swing them like a club at a number of different denominations within the scope of this forum; and yet, you cannot explain why. Your alleged proof texts become pretexts, when used in a manner that they were never written for.
I have one hundred more Bible Facts About The Sabbath that you & others here may be interested in. It is all in the Bible; and whether you like it or not, any Bible will tell you Jesus was indeed a seventh day Sabbath keeper.
Quote: I find your posts here disappointing, for several reasons. First of all, whenever I see someone talking like you are here, whether it's about SDA's or JW's or whatever; I find myself wondering whose little black book you are quoting from.
Dude, you come in here to this forum, and your very first post is not about the Lord Jesus and His love, but an accusation based on my comments about SDAs and JWs? Why not say, 'hi, I'm so-and-so and I want to discuss this issue as a brother in Chrsit?
Dude, where's the love?
And, my Bible is not a little black book. Dream on, dude.
Quote:
It is very obvious that you have never once read all the way through YOURSELF, PERSONALLY, any SDA or Ellen G White books. The tiny snipets and half quotes you use, are typical of those who are simply parroting what someone else told them, or what they have read in some book.
Dude, she is not who I follow, I follow the Lord Jesus Christ.
Not once in what you wrote did I see you say that you do, too. Not good, dude.
Quote:
God does not look at al these other denominations in quite the way you apparently do here. While you accuse them of saying others are damned, if they do not "worship like them," you yourself, condemn them here, to the flames that you yourself would wish to avoid.
Dude, I condemn no man, it is the Word of God that shows condemnation. Only God has that power, for He is God.
Quote:
If you look in your Bible, it is easy to see how God has people in all denominations. For eg.; Rev.18:4 speaking about "Babylon," (apostate churches), God says: "Come out of her MY PEOPLE." God has His people all over the place.
So, what is your point? Maybe God is trying to get His poeple to come out of the SDAs and JWs. Did you think of it in that respect?
Quote:
Your slander against the SDA's is totally unscriptural. You are taking one little Bible verse, and making a whole doctrine out of them. For eg., on your bones about the Sabbath.
Dude, slander indicates lying, and I didn't lie. Are you calling me a liar?
Quote:
You repeatedly call it "the jewish Sabbath," yet, the Bible is quite clear: "The Sabbath Of The Lord Thy God." Ex.20:10, Deut.5:14
Dude, I don't recall ever using that phrase. I do not believe that any day is more important than any other, since all 7 days are to be used to worship and praise God, and to follow Jesus.
I know the Jews have their sabbath on our Saturdays, but to me every day is a sabbath.
Quote:
In fact; Jesus had the custom of regularly keeping the seventh day sabbath too:
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. Luke 4:16.
Dude, what is your point?
[qupte]
In fact; Jesus Himself was a Jew; and, if you want to go to heaven, "You gonna be a Jew too."[/quote]
Dude, you are totally wrong on that one.
God is the God of all, and Jesus died on the cross so that anyone who believes in Him can find salvation through His blood that He shed on the cross for all of us.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
Albert Einstein
Quote: Why you cannot explain even one thing about the above Scriptural Points I have made above is anyone's guess. Your professed quoting of texts seems to have grew legs and walked away.
Dude, you post here and someone will answer you. Until then, you are just someone who came in here with a chip on your shoulder looking for a fight, not someone with the love of Jesus Christ in their heart. No offense, but we are all born-again Christians, so show us your love.
Quote:
You, and the owner of this forum take texts and swing them like a club at a number of different denominations within the scope of this forum; and yet, you cannot explain why. Your alleged proof texts become pretexts, when used in a manner that they were never written for.
Dude, ask specific questions, number them, and i will answer them.
Quote:
I have one hundred more Bible Facts About The Sabbath that you & others here may be interested in. It is all in the Bible; and whether you like it or not, any Bible will tell you Jesus was indeed a seventh day Sabbath keeper.
Dude, if they are in the Bible, I am interested in them. But, what is the source of your questions? Give us that info then ask those questions. But, honestly, you are more interested in defending your sect than in spreading the Word of God. That is my honest opinion. From me, your Christian brother, to you, dude.
Quote: And, you calling people "dude" is rude.
Dude, why? Don't you know the world will hate you for knowing and following Jesus, so why allow the word "dude" to bother you?
Live by faith in the Word of God, and follow Jesus, dude!
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
Albert Einstein
Re: SDA...Sabbath
After working the first six days of the week in creating this earth, the great God rested on the seventh day. Genesis 2:1-3.
This stamped that day as God's rest day, or Sabbath day, as Sabbath day means rest day. To illustrate: When a person is born on a certain day, that day thus becomes his birthday. So when God rested upon the seventh day, that day became His rest, or Sabbath day.
Therefore the seventh day must always be God's Sabbath day. Can you change your birthday from the day on which you were born to one on which you were not born? No. Neither can you change God's rest day to a day on which He did not rest. Hence the seventh day is still God's Sabbath day.
The Creator blessed the seventh day. Genesis 2:3.
He made it the Sabbath day in the garden of Eden. Genesis 2:1-3
He sanctified the seventh day as one of His Ten Commandments. Exodus 20:11.
It was made before the fall; hence it is not a type, for types were not introduced till after the fall of man.
Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man (Mark 2:27), that is, for the race, as the word man is here unlimited; hence, for the Gentiles as well as for the Jews.
It is a memorial of creation. Exodus 20:11; 31:17. Every time we rest upon the seventh day, as God did at creation, we commemorate the grand event.
It was given to Adam, the head of the human race. Genesis 2:1-3 (Mark 2:27); hence through Adam, as our representative, to all nations. Acts 17:26.
It is not a Jewish institution, for it was made approximately 2,300 years before there ever was a Jew.
The Bible never calls it the Jewish Sabbath but always "the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." Men should be cautious how they call God's holy rest day.
It was a part of God's law before Sinai. Exodus 16:4, 27-30.
God placed the Sabbath command in the heart of His moral law. Exodus 20:1-17. Why did He place it there if it was not like the other nine precepts which all admit to be immutable?
The seventh-day Sabbath was a command by the voice of the living God. Deuteronomy 4:12, 13.
God wrote the commandment with His own finger. Exodus 31:18.
He engraved it in the enduring stone indicating its imperishable nature. Deuteronomy 5:22.
It was sacredly kept inside the ark in the most holy place in the tabernacle. Deuteronomy 10:1-5.
God forbade work upon the Sabbath, even in the most hurrying circumstances. Exodus 34:21.
God destroyed the Israelites in the wilderness because they profaned the Sabbath. Ezekiel 20:12, 13.
It is the sign of the true God, by which we are to know Him from false gods. Ezekiel 20:20.
God promised that Jerusalem will stand forever if the Jews would keep the Sabbath. Jeremiah 17:24, 25.
He sent the Jewish nation into captivity in Babylon for breaking the Sabbath. Nehemiah 13:18.
He destroyed Jerusalem for its violation. Jeremiah 17:27.
God has pronounced a special blessing on all the Gentiles who keep it. Isaiah 56:6, 7.
This is recorded in the prophecy which refers wholly to the Christian dispensation. See Isaiah chapter 56.
The Lord requires us to call it "honourable." Isaiah 58:13. Beware, ye who take delight in calling it the "old Jewish Sabbath," "a yoke of bondage," etc.
After the holy Sabbath has been trodden down for "many generations," it is to be restored in the last days. Isaiah 58:12, 13.
All the holy prophets kept the seventh day.
When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life. Luke 4:16; John 15:10. Thus He followed His Father's example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example of both the Father and the Son?
Jesus was the Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:2 ; that is, to love and protect it, as in the example of the husband who is the lord of the wife, to love and cherish her. 1 Peter 3:6.
Jesus vindicated the Sabbath as a merciful institution designed for man's good. Mark 2:23-28.
Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, Jesus carefully taught how it should be observed. Matthew 12:1-13.
He taught His disciples that they should do nothing upon the Sabbath day but that which was "lawful." Matthew 12:12.
Jesus instructed His followers that the Sabbath should be prayerfully regarded even when fleeing persecution. Matthew 24:20.
The pious women who had been with Jesus, carefully kept the seventh day after His death. Luke 23:56.
Thirty years after Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit expressly calls it "the Sabbath day." Acts 13:14.
Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, called it "the Sabbath day" in A.D. 45. Acts 13:27.
Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D. 62, calls it "the Sabbath day." Acts 13:44.
The Gentile converts called it the Sabbath. Acts 13:42.
In the great Christian council, A.D. 52, in the presence of the apostles and thousands of disciples, James calls it the "Sabbath day." Acts 15:21.
It was customary to hold prayer meetings upon that day. Acts 16:13.
Paul read the Scriptures in public meetings on that day. Acts 17:2, 3.
There was never any dispute between the Christians and the Jews about the Sabbath day. This is proof that the Christians still observed the same day that the Jews did.
In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him with disregarding the Sabbath day.
Paul expressly declared that he had kept the law. "Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all." Acts 25:8. How could this be true if he had not kept the Sabbath?
The Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament 59 times, and always with respect, bearing the same title it had in the Old Testament, "the Sabbath day."
Not a word is said anywhere in the New Testament about the Sabbath being abolished, done away, changed, or any such thing.
God has never given permission to any man to work upon it. Friend, by what authority do you use the seventh day for common labor?
No Christian of the New Testament, either before or after the resurrection, ever did ordinary work upon the seventh day. Should modern Christians do differently from Bible Christians?
There is no record that God has ever removed His blessing or sanctification from the seventh day.
As the Sabbath was kept in Eden before the fall, so it will be observed eternally in the new earth after the restitution. Isaiah 66:22, 23.
The seventh-day Sabbath was an important part of the law of God, as it came from His own mouth, and was written by His own finger upon stone at Sinai. See Exodus chapter 20. When Jesus began His work, He expressly declared that He had not come to destroy the law. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets." Matthew 5:17.
Jesus severely condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites for pretending to love God, while at the same time they made void one of the Ten Commandments by their tradition. The keeping of Sunday is only a tradition of men.
Bible Facts Concerning the First Day of the Week
The very first thing recorded in the Bible is work done on Sunday, the first day of the week. Genesis 1:1-5. This was done by the Creator Himself. If God made the earth on Sunday, can we then work on Sunday?
God commands men to work upon the first day of the week. Exodus 20:8-11. Should we obey God?
None of the patriarchs ever kept Sunday.
None of the holy prophets ever kept Sunday.
By the express command of God, His holy people used the first day of the week as a common working day for 4,000 years, at least.
God Himself calls it a "working" day. Ezekiel 46:1.
God did not rest upon it.
He never blessed it.
Christ did not rest upon it.
Jesus was a carpenter (Mark 6:3) and worked at His trade until He was 30 years old. He kept the Sabbath and worked six days in the week.
The apostles worked on Sunday during the same time.
The apostles never rested upon it.
Christ never blessed it.
It has never been blessed by any divine authority.
It has never been sanctified.
The New Testament nowhere forbids work to be done on the first day.
No penalty is provided for its violation.
No blessing is promised for its observance.
No regulation is given as to how it ought to be observed. Would this be so if the Lord wished us to keep it?
It is never called the Christian Sabbath in Scripture.
It is never called the Sabbath day at all.
It is never called the Lord's day.
It is never called even a rest day.
No sacred title whatever is applied to it. Then why should we call it holy?
It is simply called "first day of the week."
Jesus never mentioned it in any way, never took its name upon His lips, as far as the record shows.
The word Sunday never occurs in the Bible at all.
The first day of the week is mentioned only eight times in all the New Testament. Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2, 9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1, 19; Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2.
Six of these texts refer to the same first day of the week.
In all the New Testament we have a record of only one religious meeting held upon that day, and even this was a night meeting. Acts 20:5-12.
There is not an intimation that they ever held a meeting upon it before or after that.
It was not their custom to meet on that day.
There was no requirement to break bread on that day.
We have account of only one instance in which it was done, and that after midnight. Acts 20:7-11.
Jesus celebrated it on Thursday evening (Luke 22), and the disciples sometimes did it every day. Acts 2:42-46.
The Bible nowhere says that the first day of the week commemorates the resurrection of Christ. This is a tradition of men, which makes void the law of God. Matthew 15:1-9. Baptism commemorates the burial and resurrection of Jesus. Romans 6:3-5.
Re: A True Prophet Can Never be wrong???
Was Jonah A true Prophet of God? Lets see what happened with Jonah!
Lets see (lengthy but worthy )
And so we began a most interesting study of unfulfilled prophecies by authentic, acknowledged prophets in the Bible. Probably the best known example is Jonah.
After finishing his celebrated "submarine" ride in the belly of the great fish, Jonah went to Nineveh to do the Lord's bidding. Nineveh was a large city; it would take Jonah three days to cover it entirely. His message was as simple as it was stark: "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown" (Jonah 3:4). No hope was offered, no compromise, no conditional element.
After delivering the message, Jonah went out of town and found a vantage place where he could witness (and relish) the massacre of his nation's most hated enemies. Jonah despised these people with a passion, for the Assyrians were the most warlike and fearsome of Israel's pagan foes. When they captured Jewish prisoners of war, they flayed them--skinned them alive--to extract every ounce of trauma in torture that they could before they killed the victim. In such instances death, when it came, was a welcome, merciful release. The Jews quite understandably had no love for the Ninevites.
Although there was no hope explicit in the message of Jonah, the Ninevites (who may have had some prior knowledge about Jehovah from hearing other Jewish prophets, or from reading Jewish prophetic writings) decided to mend their ways. They expressed their repentance in the cultural manifestation appropriate to the times--they put on sackcloth and covered themselves with ashes. God beheld it all, and in love and mercy granted them a stay of execution.
Meanwhile, the prophet was becoming more angry by the moment. One suspects that the real cause of this growing irritation was not merely his narrow chauvinistic Jewish loyalty, but rather a fear that word of this new development might get back to Jerusalem before he did.
Jonah may have been more concerned about his professional reputation as a prophet than about the fate of his 120,000 "converts." Instead of wishing them baptized by water, he wanted them incinerated by fire! Perhaps he was afraid that when he got back to Jerusalem the little children playing in the street would chant after him, "Jonah's a false prophet; Jonah's a false prophet." Why? Because his prediction didn't come to pass.
Interestingly, in a footnote to history, we learn that several centuries after this event the Ninevites "repented" of their former repentance (see 2 Corinthians 7:10) and went back to their former ways. God then "repented" of His reprieve, and sent the threatened destruction that Jonah had originally foretold.
But was Jonah proved a "true" prophet 200 years ex post facto? No, not at all. If the Ninevites had never subsequently been destroyed, Jonah would still have been deemed a true prophet, even though his prediction did not come to pass.
How? By the conditional element that exists in some prophecies, either explicitly or implicitly. A clue to this is found as early as 950 B.C. when the prophet Azariah instructed King Asa, "The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you" (2 Chr 15:2).
More to the point, however, is the interesting (and significant) fact, that in both of the biblical books where the test of fulfillment is mandated, this conditional element is also explicitly stated.
Ten chapters before giving the test of fulfillment, Jeremiah mentions this conditional element:
At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; If that nation against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; If it do evil in my sight, that is obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them (Jeremiah 18:7-10).
Moses also mentions the conditional element repeatedly in Deuteronomy.
Some have felt that this was a face-saving means of maintaining a prophet's professional reputation in the face of adverse evidence such as nonfulfillment of predictions, but it is not. It is a biblical principle. One does not need an advanced degree in theology to be able to figure out what kind of prophecies are amendable to the conditional element and which are not.
One could cite other biblical examples of unfulfilled prophecies given by authentic, legitimate prophets. The category that comes most quickly to mind is that of a host of predictions made by a half-dozen Old Testament prophets about Israel's national honor and glory--predictions about the worldwide mission of Israel and the ingathering of the Gentiles, eternal rest in Canaan, and deliverance from political enemies.
A few of these predictions were fulfilled, secondarily, through "spiritual Israel" (the Christian church); and some may be fulfilled to Christians ultimately, after sin and sinners are destroyed following the last judgment. Despite these exceptions, the majority of these prophecies were not fulfilled in Bible times, are not being fulfilled today, and never will be fulfilled.
Then do we say that the prophets who made these predictions--notably Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Joel, Zephaniah, and Zechariah--were false prophets? No. Nor do we say, as do the Secret Rapture theorists, that these prophecies will be fulfilled in our own time. Indeed, these latter expositors have built a whole theology on the misunderstanding of the conditional element in prophecy, and they posit a last-day fulfillment in order that these Old Testament writers may be proved to be reliable, authentic prophets of the Lord
A true understanding of most messages with a prophetic tone to them can be rightly understood by conditional prophecies.
Re: yes we teach the health laws,
Quote by "fleshnblood" on 4/21/02
"What I meant was that, by worshipping 24/7, then we do worship during their scheduled time. Therefore, they have no basis for any condemnation."
Hello fellow Dude
I should have included Christian Warrior, and King Jehu in my concerns I raised above. Slander does not really mean lying. it means saying something that may or may not be true; but with the specific purpose of making the other person, or organization look bad, or look foolish, and in general tarnish their name, or character.
I have given you a link above to check out Scripture that proves Sunday is not the Sabbath. You asked what my point was. That was it. I question remarks that insinuate SDAs are condemning anyone for choosing Sunday as their sabbath. You, or the others, have not given one speck of proof on that point. You just make the accusation against them; and I am simply trying to say; that is not right. Like you say, let's look at the Scriptures I and a couple of others have stated here, and compare one another's understanding in a better spirit.
I wish to make it clear, that I am not just jumping the gun with what this thread is trying to say about SDA's but also Mormons & JWs. I think it is wrong to treat them as if we were any better, regardless of who believes what. I currently study with all these groups, when occasions arise; and many of them are lovely people, with some good points to make. And, some not so good ones. But, how are you folks witnessing for Christ; and His love, in detailing every little error and slip up you can muster about these groups?
I'll bet you didn't know that JWs have 32 points of belief in common with the average protestant, did you?
I think Christian Warrior and King Jehu and yourself should relax about these other denominations more; it accomplishes nothing to accuse them in a public forum.
I won't bother you much more about this; but sometimes I feel it is Biblical to be a bit of a Benaiah when we see something that is not right like this.
And, I don't mind apologizing if I have offended you.
Sincerely
SpringsOfLivingWater
KingJehu
Unregistered User
(10/19/02 11:03 am) Reply
RE: Re: yes we teach the health laws,
No offence taken. . . now lets get this straight. . . the word warns of people coming to us and proclaiming they are of Christ, and that they will try to tell us to abstain from certain meats. . . and you want us to just shut up when someone does this. . . O please. What the deal is, is when ones doctrine is not biblke based they just want the others to shut up about it. Not here. READ YOUR DOCTRINES people. . . because if it dont mesh with the Word of God, and does what the word CLEARY warns of, it will be pointed out by me here, in a church or in a bar for that matter. . . I am not here to make nice nice, this is a debate forum. . . and I could care less when the SDA worship. . . or anyone else. . . if they pick friday, hey thats cool with me, Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath and the rules are the same for all, God is not a repecter of man. . . if one was on a island by himself and didnt know what day it was, and picked a day in the middle of the week, Christ being the Lord of the Sabbath, has no problems with it, and the rules are the SAME FOR ALL. . . dont say they are not, so if one wants to call friday his sabbath, cause thats the only day he has off from work and sets that day aside for worship, its granted. Does the SDA people believe this, well their doctrine says different. . .
Re:Yes we teach health laws
So it does not matter what day we keep as long as we keep one in seven? That is your main argument? How weak is your faith? Let me explain it to you this way...I have 7 daughters & you have found favor in my eyes..so you tell me that you want to marry my daughter..so I ask you "which one?" You say, "It doesn't matter, give me any one of them"...Well its going to matter to the daughter isn't it? Its also going to matter to the Father of those daughters, matter of fact I would say you just lost favor in that Fathers eyes!
Its the same with Gods Sabbath..He says "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God" ! Period. If you argue that you are arguing with God! Stay blessed!
FDNichol Registered User
Posts: 9
(10/19/02 12:53 pm) Reply
My thanks to spreadthevision
I am very much encouraged and appreciative of the posts you've made in defense of Seventh-day Adventist teachings. Those who continue to object in spite of the clear evidence given from the Bible shows a spirit not of God. As it was mentioned previously, where's the love? That question needs to be redirected at them. Where is your love for God and His commandments? Where is your love for truth? If our love for God falls short, it will reflect itself in our relationship to our fellow man. Having said this, I am confident that the truth of Seventh-day Adventists will be triumphant in these last days because Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith - Hebrews 12:2. The work of Seventh-day Adventists began because of Jesus and it will end the same way as well. Thanks again for your contribution to this forum. They have been very helpful. Your brother in Christ, FDNichol Executive Administrator Inquisitive Fellow Christians ANSWERS TO OBJECTIONS http://pub20.ezboard.com/finquisitivefellowchristiansanswerstoobjections
KingJehu
Unregistered User
(10/20/02 5:42 pm) Reply
Love is. . .
Love is the fulfillment of the law. . . your trying to uphold the law, you think by your actions you attain salvation. . . this is a false teaching. . .
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Galations 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
"your not of FAITH!"
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Galations 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
"There it is people, your trying to live by the law, your cursed by the word of God and not of faith, you will reject that of course, but the word of God is VERY clear on the subject"
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
"And there it CLEARLY tells us not to let your judgement bother us"
Galations 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
"And clearly shows those that think they can please God by living by the HEBREW law, are fallen from grace"
I Can Believe
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Re: SDA...Sabbath 
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