Replace the "(" with the "[".
Replace the ")" with the "]".
Quote:
That was all from me to him. Sorry dont know how to use the block quote feature like that bro...
It's okay, just a suggestion.
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yaali110
Unregistered User
(8/11/02 9:42 am) Reply
again !
786/110
Asalmaolaikum !
I didnt know that my last post couldn't be posted, so here is it again.
(quote)
Your point was that the Muslims have "rights" to Kashmir, because they were there first, so I pointed out that, in no way that is true as Hinduism is much older then Islam ........
(/quote)
Actually, that was the other way round brother. I did not say that unless you did. Please, recheck the previous posts. You raised this point that Hindus were in that area before islam was born and I, only commented on that. And thats why I said its fallacy.
(quote)
[Please do not tell me about Hazrat Mohammed (saw), when He came here and when he was created.]
Don't recall having said anything about either.
(/quote)
You were saying that before even Hazrat Mohammed (saw) ....... etc. I mean you can say it like that ...before even Islam was introduced, instead of saying before Hazrat Mohammed (saw), cuz we have different views and beliefs about when Hazrat Mohammed (saw) and Ahlul Bayat (as) were created. And thats irrelevant to discuss here.
Ok, and in the fourth paragraph from the bottom of the post by KjChristianwarrior (posted: 07/30/02), it reads:
(quote)
......So that shows that two things... one that there are indeed people wanting to worship in their own religion and two Muslims REFUSE to let them, THATS not even in the disputed region either, but because ISLAM says to destroy all temples, "which they had done to this very one in the past" they spread murder and terror.
(/quote)
Where does Islam say that destroy all temples? Ok, look, I am trying to be very polite and reasonable here. I am not trying to pass judgements on YOUR religion by keeping in mind a few examples. Ok, some people that were muslims killed hindus and the ISLAM is blamed. Tell me what do you know about the gravity of the situation. Why dont you quote the whole episodes. You picked up the event where muslims burned the bus of hindus...was that it? Nothing happened and they did that ? The Muslims went thru MUCH more. Their houses were set on fire. Everyone was burnt inside it from toddler to an old man. I am repeating here again and again. We can be terrorists. we can be blamed for our acts, but if we want to hold a RELIGION responsible for that, then quote examples from the particular code of that religion; if Isalm is to be blamed, tell me where in QURAN it says that go and destroy temples? Where did Hazrat Mohammed (saw) say that spread murder and terror ? Where did Hazrat Mohammed (saw) or his Ahlul Bayat (a.s) did anything that would give us a reason to believe that violence and power are the way to success? Nowhere!
I know many evil things that christians are committing. All of that is an open secret. But I never said Christianity as a religion tells them to do this or that.
(quote)
My point is this. #1 Muslims kill jews, Christians and Hindus. Jews and Christians for the most part have no conflict, Hindus and Jew have no conflicts for the most part, and Christians and Hindus have no conflicts for the most part... YET ISLAM seems to want to cause trouble with all of them.
(/quote)
America is not the true representative of christian community. If America has no overt conflict with Israel, that does not mean that christians have no conflict with jews. Almost 100% of the christian population in middle east is against israel and they are in a state of severe conflict with jews. Ask the christians in palestine, lebanon, and syria etc. who are going thru all this. They are the true insiders. They share same feelings as muslims do. For most part christians and muslims share a brotherhood in middle east. They both are against israel. So, that right thing to say is that Christains and jews for
the most part do have a severe conflict.
Actually, that was the other way round brother. I did not say that unless you did. Please, recheck the previous posts. You raised this point that Hindus were in that area before islam was born and I, only commented on that. And thats why I said its fallacy.
Jor the one that brought up that the Palestine's where in the region before the making of the state of Israel in "48" way before that, so I used your own logic against you... is all... look back I even stated it about the jews as well. BUT it was you that brought up... they were there first my friend.
Quote:
Please do not tell me about Hazrat Mohammed (saw), when He came here and when he was created.
Don't recall having said anything about either.
well sure you did... thats a quote from you... Please do not tell me about Hazrat Mohammed (saw), when He came here and when he was created.
BUT i never tried too
As for your last post, I don't know where it says in the quran to destroy all other temples... thats not the point, Islam teachers teach it, it seems because Muslims keep doing it and saying in the name of Allah... as far as the bus load of hindus being burned by those of "islam" it was in India, which is a hindu state, if muslims dont like the religion of that country, as some nation proclaim a national religion, just like thier are Islam Nations, there are hindu ones... now the muslims are in a hindu region, they have a right to be there BUT they dont have a right to try to burn down temples or kill others of another religion.... They are doing just that though, even killing hindus going to that cave/temple in Kashmar. Muslims have burned to the ground many hindu temples in india as well, thats what the whole bus burning thing was about, the hindus rebuilt the temple and the muslims God mad... now thats what all news reports and history show, but when I post the news clips you say their bias... so whats the point if your just going to ignore all the evidence... but if you would like to see them, just to know what is going on please let me know and I will more then be happy to look them up.
Next you ask where does it say to "kill" anyone in the Quran...
[2.19 And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
[2.192] But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
Thats just one place... now look at the difference with Christ... He says Love all even our enemies, and bless them that curse us and do GOOD to them that wish to harm us, FOR vengence is God's now mans, if Father is an all powerful and all seeing God why would He tells us to hurt anyone for any reason. He will take care of it all!!! AND not this.... [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
Yet Christ teaches to love them that hate you and God, He will repay... now really which seems to be from a all powerful God?
second look at this... [2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
I assume the... and religion should be only for Allah... is their reason to burn down other temples.... ? I dunno... you tell me?
[4.88] What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him.
[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
THERES ANOTHER one so please dont say the quran doesnt say to kill people... it does... and thats without looking into the matter.
Re: yaali110 !
I note you didnt answer this one yaali110, it clearly shows that Islam and the quran teaches "to kill" perhaps you just missed my answer, that or you don't know how to deal with those verses cited from your doctrine?
Re: here!
Ah, go back and read all of Matthew 10 in context in modern translations and you will see that Jesus was not supporting Jihad or Holy War in any means.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(8/17/02 7:20 pm) Reply
already said
786/110
Hello all !
I guess some new guys are coming into this forum and starting the same debates or issues that have been addressed before. They should read these posts to see if their question is answered.
e.g. in his last post fleshnblood says:
Quote:
***************
Jesus taught forgiveness.
The Koran? Nope!
*************
I have cited the verses of Quran before, maybe under different topic that preach forgiveness and declare that forgiveness is the best thing. I dont want to go thru that again. I would like to request you to read that post, but if still u cant find it, I'll cite it again.
Quote :
********************
Jesus preached turning the other cheek.
Where does the Koran preach that?
******************
No arguments there. We believe that this particular act to turn other cheek is outdated. It was good for that period but thats why Islam came with new set of teaching. Turning the other cheek is not what islam teaches. It teaches us to pay the enemy back, but do not exceed. We are taught to Counter them who attack us or our families but we are also taught not to cross limits and not to overreact.
And to Daniel:
Dont mistranslate please. The term Jiha'd is an Arabic word. Literally, it does NOT mean War or Holy War.
All sects of Islam agree that Holy war is not the only jihad. If anyone wants I am willing to explain the whole concept, but in a very concise way. 9/11 in no way is an example of jiha'd. it's only terrorism.
Quote: Jesus taught forgiveness.
The Koran? Nope!
*************
I have cited the verses of Quran before, maybe under different topic that preach forgiveness and declare that forgiveness is the best thing. I dont want to go thru that again. I would like to request you to read that post, but if still u cant find it, I'll cite it again.
Now that you have admitted the truth, explain how Jesus would tell Christians to forgive, and yet tell Muslims to extract revenge?
The answer is, Islam is a LIE!
Jesus was not a part of Islam, that is a lie.
Thank you for admitting the truth, and showing the world that Islam is a lie.
~The greatest test of courage on earth is to bear defeat without losing heart.~
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Your just not being honest, you yourself have read what the quran says about "to kill" there is no denying this, and you have not so far denied the verses, but you keep acting as if the terrorist have no verses to cite that call for killing others, this is just not true, infact it seems they are following the quran and your not...
Re: smile God is watching :-)
One need only study the life of Muhammad to see that War, battles and raids on trade travelers were common fair for Muslims to practice.
Re: smile God is watching :-)
I think we lost another one guys... when they can't denie thier own doctrine, when its right there infront of them, they kinda forget this is here. Kinda like the mormons, sda and jw's... a host of others as well.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(9/2/02 10:13 pm) Reply
u lie!
786/110
Hello !
To fleshnblood !
I just accepted that Islam does not teach TURNING the Other Cheek. It's outfashioned, outdated & Now a days STUPID!
I did NOT say that islam does not teach forgiveness. Wake up, brother.
And please, You use vulgar and explicit language, declaring this is lie and Islam is lie (God forbid).
Quit commenting something and jumping on a conclusion.
Wait for responses. Or it's ok, I'll do the same thing...Make a point declare you a fraud and then get reply, read it and tag u as a lier again.
Plus, kindly explain to me HOW turning the other cheek is valid nowadays ? Realistically as well as idealistically.
Islam rules. It tells not to compromise on the cost of your esteem and prestige. But teaches us to forgive when u have the power to take revenge. Not turn the other cheek, but let go.
Thanks for listening.
Regards,
Asad Ali.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(9/2/02 10:22 pm) Reply
here Daniel marsh!
786/110
Hello All!
[Told u i can get late while posting replies. I have my school now. And the previous weeks have been hectic. I am telling you all again that I may take time to post cuz with classes on, delays happen...then I also work part time. ]
Daniel Marsh tried to conclude that Terrorists seem to be inline with Hazrat Mohammed (saw).
Now please, do not say that if you have never read Mohammed's (saw)'s life history.
"La3na" (Curse) on the one who lies. Have you ever gone thru the rules and regulations of war and jiha'd as taught by Hazrat Mohammed (saw) ? Yes or No?
Have you ever read what the Quran and Mohammed (saw) and his AhlulBayat (a.s) said about killing the innocents ? Yes or no ?
Have you read what my previous posts where I explained that when Quran says "kill" ... what people is it targetting and what is the whole, complete verse ?
If you didn't and I am pretty sure of it, then you are still ignorant about these issues. You should ask, you should question and not make decisions.
Write back whenever u get sometime. Thanks for your patience.
Quote: I just accepted that Islam does not teach TURNING the Other Cheek. It's outfashioned, outdated & Now a days STUPID!
I did NOT say that islam does not teach forgiveness. Wake up, brother.
And please, You use vulgar and explicit language, declaring this is lie and Islam is lie (God forbid).
Quit commenting something and jumping on a conclusion.
Wait for responses. Or it's ok, I'll do the same thing...Make a point declare you a fraud and then get reply, read it and tag u as a lier again.
Plus, kindly explain to me HOW turning the other cheek is valid nowadays ? Realistically as well as idealistically.
Islam rules. It tells not to compromise on the cost of your esteem and prestige. But teaches us to forgive when u have the power to take revenge. Not turn the other cheek, but let go.
I have not spoken vulgarity or used explicit language or said anything other than the truth.
Islam is an evil religion, and your own words prove my point.
GOD NEVER CHANGES!!!!
Jesus said to turn the other cheek. That will never change.
Islam teaches otherwise, then it teaches contrary to the WORD OF GOD!
Why should any born-again Christian read the Quran if it teaches things that are against the WORD OF GOD?
You are not my brother. My brothers are only born-again Christians.
Does the truth hurt? Then open your eyes and your heart to the truth of God's Word, and the TRUE ministry of Jesus Christ, the true Messiah. The ONLY MEssiah.
Mohammed was a false prophet.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(9/8/02 12:35 pm) Reply
bad
786/110
Hello !
This is the first and the last time i read anything against my Prophet Mohammed (saw). Do NOT get offensive towards him. This message is for all people here, including forum moderators, so if I dont post later on, u should know the reason. Another statement should I see that defames Hazrat Mohammed (saw) in any way, I swear to Allah (swt) I am NOT going to reply or post here, for u said bad about Islam, I am still posting and trying to debate but you say one word against Hazrat Mohammed (saw) and I do not care for what u say or question. You asked about Hazrat Mohammed (saw) proof as a prophet and as his bloodline, that was ok, cuz that was a question asked very politely. No bad words directed to any Prophet, whether u believe in him or not.
Once again, questions are welcome, but I strictly hate biased decisions like fanatic fleshnblood. I thank God for I dont have a fanatic and overheated brother.
Thank you very much.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(9/9/02 10:12 am) Reply
Son ??
786/110
Hi !
Every religion has fanatics in it. It's no use averting your eyes from truth. Each and every religion has extremists in it, so let's leave that aside
Hazrat Mohammed (saw) was not an ordinary man, he is the last Prophet of God.
Hazrat Isa [Jesus] (a.s) ? You say Son of God. Okay, prove it rationally, why does God need a Son? A God is supposed to be the one who is All-powerful; needs no assistance; and no daughters and sons.
I dont intend to offend anyone. I just want to ask why do Christian think that Hazrat Isa (a.s) is the Son of God?
Is it ratioanally possible ? What arguments or logic can one have behind this faith? I just want to know.
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And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
Re: here!
Re: here!
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