Quote: Is it ratioanally possible ? What arguments or logic can one have behind this faith? I just want to know.
Mark 10:27
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
I have faith in God, the only true God who can do anything He wants to do.
And, God NEVER changes.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(10/1/02 2:45 pm) Reply
power.....
786/110
Hi !
Ok, thats very true that with God everything is possible. What I am asking is that why would God need a son, not how can he but why ?
I just want to know, no offense, nothing. I want to learn what you people think and believe.
Like, in Islam too, Hazrat Isa (Jesus) [a.s] is regarded as a holy messenger of Allah who was all pure and never committed a sin. He was a prophet and we respect him as much as we respect Hadrat Mohammed (saw).
But about the birth of Hadrat Isa (a.s) we believe that its a "mo3jiza" (Miracle of Allah). Same that humans may not believe that it's possible to have a baby from a virgin mother but Allah says that for Him, it's "Kun, fa-ya koon" (He says be/arise and it does).
So, we believe that Hadrat Isa (a.s) is the miracle of God, not his son. How different is your explainition?
Quote: What I am asking is that why would God need a son, not how can he but why ?
God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all one.
Jesus is God in the flesh. Jesus came to end the Old Covenant between God and man, and to start the New Covenant. The New Covenant is that Jesus is the Ultimate Blood Sacrifice. A one-time sacrifice to cover the sins of everyone for all times.
All we have to do is acknowledge that Jesus is our Lord and Savior. The gift is free, a gift of love.
Why did God do it? Because He loves us. He loved us before creation. God can do anything He wants, He is God.
Everything that God does is a miracle. He created everything, and it's all a miracle. He created it by His Word.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
Albert Einstein
Quote:Actually, you believe in the WRONG.
God is omnipotent and aloof from any thing like son or daughter or family
God does not need a son for nothing.
Mark Chapter 1
9: And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
10: And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
11: And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
So, I have shown that even God called Jesus His Son.
When I was a kid, we walked 10 miles to school every day, sometimes in the rain or snow. Man, did we feel stupid when we found out there was a bus.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(1/24/03 6:52 pm) Reply
rational
786/110
I am asking you to explain it rationally, why does God need a Son? The whole concept of having any progeny is conflicting with His greatness.
You used bible to prove it. We should debate it rationally cuz I can also show you from Quran that Jesus (a.s) is not God' son. You don't believe in Quran as we don't believe in modern bible. Thats why I say rationally.
This is what Quran says:
[19.27] And she (Marium) came to her people with him, carrying him (with her). They said: O Marium! surely you have done a strange thing.
[19.28] O sister of Haroun! your father was not a bad man, nor, was your mother an unchaste woman.
[19.29] But she pointed to him. They said: How should we speak to one who was a child in the cradle?
[19.3 He said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a Prophet;
[19.34] Such is Isa, son of Marium; (this is) the saying of truth about which they dispute.
[19.35] It beseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a ! son, glory to be Him; when He has decreed a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is.
Quote:I am asking you to explain it rationally, why does God need a Son? The whole concept of having any progeny is conflicting with His greatness.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
THAT is why God needed a Son, to save us so we can have life everlasting.
Quote:You used bible to prove it. We should debate it rationally cuz I can also show you from Quran that Jesus (a.s) is not God' son. You don't believe in Quran as we don't believe in modern bible. Thats why I say rationally.
You came to a Christian forum, we play by Christian rules.
Jesus is the Son of God in Christianity.
Quote:This is what Quran says:
[19.27] And she (Marium) came to her people with him, carrying him (with her). They said: O Marium! surely you have done a strange thing.
[19.28] O sister of Haroun! your father was not a bad man, nor, was your mother an unchaste woman.
[19.29] But she pointed to him. They said: How should we speak to one who was a child in the cradle?
[19.3 He said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a Prophet;
[19.34] Such is Isa, son of Marium; (this is) the saying of truth about which they dispute.
[19.35] It beseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a ! son, glory to be Him; when He has decreed a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is.
Hope it was helpful.
take care.
More from Islamic berliefs..
A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate; sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however, does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister.
A man can have sex with animals such as sheeps, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.
If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, an ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrements become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed and as quickly as possible and burned.
Eleven things are impure: urine, excrement, sperm...non-Moslem men and women...and the sweat of an excrement-eating camel.
All these from the mouth of the Islamic leader a few years ago.
Islam is EVIL.
When I was a kid, we walked 10 miles to school every day, sometimes in the rain or snow. Man, did we feel stupid when we found out there was a bus.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(1/25/03 9:23 pm) Reply
calm down
786/110
hi all!
God needed a Son to save us? Tell me honestly, what is Son to do here ? I mean What is that God cannot do but a son will ? God doesn't need s on to save us and give us eternal life.
The excerpts that u quoted about sex with children etc. DO NOT & lets be very Clear DO NOT exist. These are not from mouth of an islamic leader but from mouths of some fanatic anti-muslims.
I have been thru the same crap over and over again. Some stupid people gave the vol# of the book also to make it look like real, & guess what. No such volume exists. I'll tell you, they attributed it to Khomeni (r.a) but his that book never said that cuz there was no such volume of the book.
Ok, you want to carry on with the evil evil routine? You want to have me tell you what you are. You want me to act like a rabid fanatic like you and curse other religions. Nah! My religion Islam, UNLIKE yours, teaches me not to speak evil of other religions. But I must tell you, you are doing this on purpose. I am no kid here. I know why you saying it again and again. YOU HAVE RUN OUT OF ARGUMENTS. You say we play here by christians rule. BUZZ OFF. Christians do not act like you..."evil evil" routine.
You are like a frog trapped inside a well, thus he cannot see or think beyond his strict confinements. You want to hurt me real bad with your words. You know that religions asks you to be rational. And to debate with others, you cannot use references that others don't believe in. You know this but you are out of options. You are, beat it, out of reasonings. In every post of yours, u call my religion Evil. Can you imagine what does it do to me? Do you think it will make me feel good.
I think its better to tell you your ways rather than to attack your religion with DIRTY words.
I would still request u to please quit saying that cuz if i do the same, man! I know how badly you will be hurt. I dont want all that. Trust me, i dont. We are to discuss and question here, not to make hasty decisions.
You quoted some reference, okay. Please wait till I respond. Don't conclude anything unless you have heard other side also.
I hope you understand. I have to be patient. I'll go now.
Quote:God needed a Son to save us? Tell me honestly, what is Son to do here ? I mean What is that God cannot do but a son will ? God doesn't need s on to save us and give us eternal life.
God sent His Son, Jesus, to live among us, and that we could see Him, hear His Words, and see His miracles.
God did all that so that we could be saved by believing in Jesus as the Messiah that God promised to send to us.
Only those who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and accept Him as the Son of God, and ask for forgiveness of their sins in His Name, will be saved.
The gift of salvation is through Jesus, but we must accept it. Otherwise, we are not saved.
Quote:The excerpts that u quoted about sex with children etc. DO NOT & lets be very Clear DO NOT exist. These are not from mouth of an islamic leader but from mouths of some fanatic anti-muslims.
Those things I quoted were spoken by one of the Islamic leaders of his country. I did not make it up. Doesn't the leader of an Islamic country - and he was also the religious leader - not speak for the country AND the religion?
Quote:Ok, you want to carry on with the evil evil routine?
You are the one who mentioned revenge, which is an act of hatred and evil, not me. I mentione the love of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Quote:You want to have me tell you what you are.
I am a born again Christian and I am standing up for the Word of God, and the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Quote:You want me to act like a rabid fanatic like you and curse other religions.
I did NOT curse. I spoke the truth.
Quote:My religion Islam, UNLIKE yours, teaches me not to speak evil of other religions.
Your religion teaches you to hate and kill, and to beat your wives. Jesus did not teach that, He taugh love and forgiveness.
Quote:But I must tell you, you are doing this on purpose. I am no kid here. I know why you saying it again and again. YOU HAVE RUN OUT OF ARGUMENTS.
I am saying it over and over because it is true.
And I have all the Word of God and the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ as my resources, so I am fully prepared to defend God AND Jesus Christ the Messiah.
Quote:You say we play here by christians rule. BUZZ OFF. Christians do not act like you..."evil evil" routine.
This forum is a Christian forum. I am defending Christianity against your evil religion.
No, sadly not all who claim to be Christians are like me, but they should be. They should be either hot or cold.
The only evil here at the moment is you and your Islamic beliefs.
Quote:You want to hurt me real bad with your words.
I speak the Word of God and the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. if those Words hurt you, then you are doing something wrong and can't enter the Kingdom of Heaven when you die.
Quote:You know that religions asks you to be rational.
No, Christianity only asks that we believe in Jesus and accept Him as our Lord and Savior.
Quote:And to debate with others, you cannot use references that others don't believe in.
If I were on an Islamic forum, then that would be true, but this is a Christian forum, thus I am free to defend my position with the basis of Christianity, the Word of God and the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Quote:In every post of yours, u call my religion Evil. Can you imagine what does it do to me? Do you think it will make me feel good.
I can only tell you the truth. If that truth hurts, then you need to search for the truth yourself.
Islam is evil, and if you walk with it, then the evil is within you too. And when you speak of it, you are spreading evil.
There are only two types of people, Christians and everyone else. And only those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior will get into Heaven.
Quote:I think its better to tell you your ways rather than to attack your religion with DIRTY words.
The truth I speak is not dirty. It is your eyes that are full of the evil of Islam that makes my words appear dirty.
Quote:I would still request u to please quit saying that cuz if i do the same, man! I know how badly you will be hurt. I dont want all that. Trust me, i dont. We are to discuss and question here, not to make hasty decisions.
Say what you want, I am not offended to be called names for Jesus said we would be persecuted because we believe in Him.
I am ready to suffer for my faith, and I know that the Lord Jesus will help me through my trials and tribulations.
Quote:You quoted some reference, okay. Please wait till I respond. Don't conclude anything unless you have heard other side also.
The only side that is the truth is the Word of God and the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
When I was a kid, we walked 10 miles to school every day, sometimes in the rain or snow. Man, did we feel stupid when we found out there was a bus.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(1/27/03 12:50 am) Reply
quit man!
786/110
hi!
My answer is the same. Nobody ever legalized sex with minors or animals. The leader u r mentioning (Khomeni (r.a) never said it and the volume of the book they attribute to him... does not exist. And, ironically the people who quote it don't have such volume in posession either. They refer to some webpage. If the volume exists, someone should have it in his possession. esp. the adversaries so they can prove their point.
Okay, no other references or rationality here? then come to www.shiachat.com/forum/ where we do not use ONLY islamic references to debate. We welcome any religion and any book. We debate from others relgions also.
If i am respecting you or am not calling "your" relgion something is not cuz ur religion is true. Its wrong, i know it. And I want to encourage u to come visit www.shiachat.com/forum/ where u r free to quote what u want, We use bible, Quran, rational thinking...all!
I saw that u again called my religion evil. what can i say!
I think my friends and co-workers are better. One of my best friends ( i mean a like a brother) is sam...real christian...thats what he says. Man, he is so different from all this. We do debate and argue but never did he call islam anything nor did i call christianity something.
Once, the debate got hot and another fellow got a little outta control and said sum bad abt Islam. And sam stood by me telling me he shouldnt act like that. Not sympathizing only but told me that he hates such comments that change the whole track of a positive argument. We are 3 years old friends now. I have very very few good friends...he is one of those. He says if I call him evil, he will say the same thing and in that case the fault is mine for incurring an attack on my religion cuz i asked for it.
Well! the purpose was to enlighten myself. I saw the post and same comments. I was at a loss and was too mad to think how to react. But then i thought of other people who are christians and they are nice to me. So, I talked abt. them. I dont know why.
I leave it to Allah to give me patience. I like my friends and dont want to think that they will act the same way.
Insha Allah, i hope to see u at www.shiachat.com/forum/ Only, if u can visit plz. No force, just see if u can.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(1/28/03 12:35 am) Reply
yal3n!
786/110
Pitiful!
yal3n-abuka!
You hold your fuqing tongue. who are u to call people fraud. You follower of a religion that abuse young kids. Follower of a religion where the religious places and places of worship are houses of EVIL. YOU whose mother might have been sleeping with dozens of people before your father married her. YOU whose people have no respect for their parents or siblings. YOUR religion that keeps quiet while fathers abuse and molest their kids. YOU who take no action against gays and lesbians. YOU who has a devil inside ur mouth.
YOU ARE NOT CHRISTIAN.
WHAT A SHITTY Religion you follow.
la3na on YOU!
yaali110
Unregistered User
(1/28/03 12:44 am) Reply
huh~
786/110
Your Jesus is different than mine. Bear it in ur mind. I still respect him.
I swear u say bad about Hadrat Mohammed (saw) or Islam, I'll quit respecting people u follow. And the responsibilty will be urs to have me said anything abt anyone.
1) Next time drink ice cold water before u come here.
2) Ask God to show u the right path.
3) Think about what i said in my earlier post. Dont just get angry. Think over it.
4) Ask God help you to remove bad words from your tongue.
5) Don't use bad words for anybody. Words hurt worse than physical blows.
You hold your fuqing tongue. who are u to call people fraud.
I see the evil in you has come to the surface. As I knew it would, since Islam is EVIL.
Quote:You follower of a religion that abuse young kids.
That's not Christianity, that is the Catholics. They do not follow the true Word of God, and the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Quote:Follower of a religion where the religious places and places of worship are houses of EVIL.
Again, Catholics, not Christians.
Quote:YOU whose mother might have been sleeping with dozens of people before your father married her.
HA HA HA HA HA
When logic fails you, you resort to insults about my mother.
How quaint.
HA HA HA HA HA
Quote:YOU whose people have no respect for their parents or siblings.
My people? Hmm...
So, who are "my people"?
Quote:YOUR religion that keeps quiet while fathers abuse and molest their kids.
Again, Catholics not Christians.
Quote:YOU who take no action against gays and lesbians.
I don't judge them, for God also loves them. But they are also EVIL, as are all who are not Christians.
Quote:YOU who has a devil inside ur mouth.
No, the devil is inside your potty mouth, obviously.
HA HA HA HA HA
Quote:YOU ARE NOT CHRISTIAN.
Actually, yes I am. You wouldn't know since you aren't one, that we are to be hot for the Lord Jesus, not lukewarm or cold.
You've never met a born again Christian like me, and it shows.
I do not judge you, I tell you the truth.
Only those who accept Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the SOn of God, as their Lord and Savior, will be saved, and will enter Heaven.
All others will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(1/29/03 6:11 am) Reply
no
786/110
I am not attacking your mother or anyone.
Telling you the truth. Thats logic. It did not fail cuz I saw you freaking out
Devil is in your head and mouth You have been cursing me and my religion and you are nice, if i do i am evil.... hmmmm Take a hike bro. You think I care what u say?
Catholics are not christians ?? Then what are you? Baptist or some? Plus, do you follow the Pope of Rome or someone else?
Quote:I am not attacking your mother or anyone.
Telling you the truth. Thats logic. It did not fail cuz I saw you freaking out
You are part of an EVIL group and evil is against God and Jesus and all that is good.
My mom is dead. Been dead almost 20 years.
Between the two of us, I am the onlt one telling the truth, because I am standing up for the Word of God and the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Quote:Devil is in your head and mouth You have been cursing me and my religion and you are nice, if i do i am evil.... hmmmm Take a hike bro. You think I care what u say?
No, the devil is no longer in me evr since I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, and asked Him to forgive me of my sins. Since then, He sent the Holy Spirit to live within me.
I am not cursing, I only speak the truth.
You are the one using the curse words.
I think you care enough to keep returning to hear more of the truth about the Word of God and the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Otherwise, why do you bother?
I'm not going to change what I believe, because I am not the one who is following EVIL, YOU ARE.
Quote:Catholics are not christians ?? Then what are you? Baptist or some? Plus, do you follow the Pope of Rome or someone else?
I am ONLY a born again Christian.
I only follow God and Jesus, nobody else.
yaali110
Unregistered User
(1/29/03 7:26 pm) Reply
hmm!!
786/110
Hi!
Okay! you are taking it too personal. I apologize if you think I meant to curse or swear dirrectly at your mother. When I said "You who....", i was refering to the people as whole, not like only fleshnblood. I meant it as directed to all christians who are not abiding by their religion and are committing sins like crazy.
yeah, yeah ! you will say that I am following evil and to me its you. Well! ok then. I wont follow what you follow and you wont follow what i follow.
Hey! But, I do want to ask some questions, if i may? Not personal but about how you evaluate certain acts and/or people.
Why I say that is cuz your faith (born again) is kinda new to me. Dont mean to say that u r wrong; what I mean is that I dont know any of my friends that are born-again. So, I just want to get a clear fix on ur ideas and views! Let me know if you are willing to answer.
I will be glad to answer, too, those or any questions you or somebody has.
Jesus is the Son of the Living God
![0]](http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/alien.gif)
He said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a Prophet;
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