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I have really enjoyed reading this thread!!! The character analysis reminds of my college days, and the debates we would get into in my British Modernism class. The both of you have really deconstructed each character well and posed a lot of questions!!! Spending my days teaching English to 8th graders has made me miss all this... I will be sure to post earlier to discuss the characters and their portrayers.
And Char, congrats on the standing ovation!! You go girl!! I have to give to give you props for pursuing your dream!!! I just wish that I would have the courage to pursue mine. ( I dream of becoming a writer- I know that I have to do it!! I need that creative expression/outlet- like you have with your acting!!)
Have a great weekend! Mo
katjam007 Registered User
Posts: 6
(10/11/03 2:44 pm) Reply
Check out the article on Rex/Levoisier. Interesting, considering our discussion here.
kathy
Ladyeevil Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
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(10/12/03 6:07 am) Reply
I thought of something else...
The actor's part of it... I was talking to a Micheal Easton fan yesterday and we got on this subject... its like music... you don't have to explain why the audience should feel something, but the music should be expressing it in a way that you identify with it... There's an interpretation by the end user, and its wide enough that its not the writer of the song's idea, but the foundation was laid by the writer. When an actor really HITS it, its sort of like when the musicians bring the emotion to it, and sometimes the vibe goes beyond what's on the page... I think Al had this layer that was never written... and its the difference between whether we identify or don't.. NM feels Al enough to make him so human that we feel the familiar sting of life's complexities. Edited by: Ladyeevil at: 10/12/03 2:43 pm
Ladyeevil Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
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(10/12/03 6:40 am) Reply
Another round of Blondi on this thread...
I'm taking excerpts from her article... and I'm not interested in proving her wrong, as it would not serve my purpose. Besides, she's a pro, and who am I? Takes guts to analyze the opinion of someone as great as Blondi, though, so I do this with some concern for whether I'm out of my league. I am definitely a fan of hers... so it is with love I am trying to pick it apart to look deeply. I'm not out to prove I'm right about Nathaniel, but to EXPLORE, and I think the Levoisier discussion belongs at a NM discussion because I've been saying for quite some time that NM is underused, as compared with Levoisier...
Quote:Initially, I wanted so much to wave him aside as one would a pesky fly buzzing about a much-anticipated Campbell’s alphabet soup, just another blond buff cliché, too beautiful for depth, too slick for complex. It’s been almost a year and a half, and I still don’t know what to do with this guy
Maybe why I'm not paying attention to see if there's more.
Quote:There are moments when he flat-out causes me to LOL, shocking and disappointing myself, but he doesn’t do so with uncharacteristically outrageous slapstick antics, not really. He uses phrases and expression, tweaks them just so, and lets fly with barely a bored passing glance and merely a hint of, something else going on before he quickly intentionally hides whatever spark, interest, humanity might let slip.
This is why I said he's more than one-note.. THIS is what I like about him, even as I say he's no NM.
Quote:Other lesser, weaker, ordinary, egotistical talents might grab at every opportunity to ingratiate himself to the vast daytime audience, play to the crowd, rouse up a game of fan base and fan site devotion. Not Lavoisier.
I wish Blondi explains this. Bringing humanity to the character so that the audience relates is not "ingratiating", so is she referring to hamming it up?
Quote:And then, there are moments when he takes such gutsy chances with his wild card of a character that I gasp with astonishment at the audacity of so comprehensively, expertly embracing, well, not quite evil, but not exactly the kind of person you’d want visiting your home for afternoon tea with rug rats running around nearby.
This may be the best argument for his defense. I'd like to see this aspect fleshed out. What are these gutsy chances? I'm all for risk taking.. it often leads to the humanity we look for in a character... a desire to take a chance comes through and appeals to the audience who want something out of life..
Quote:Take two weeks ago, following the premature demise of Al Holden. Everybody in town has the good sense to back off or offer condolences. Rex, on the other hand, puts Daniel, Todd, R.J., and David – the town’s amoral – to shame by blatantly trying to capitalize on Al’s death by pressuring Flash and Riley to come up with a new song, tacking on a memorial dedication just for show. But Rex clearly does not care about their tears of sorrow or their memories of mourning; hell, he’s got a nightclub to open and he won’t let a dead body ruin it for him.It’s been 24 hours anyway, he tells a flabbergasted Riley and Flash, enough time to move on and get back to work, so do it! Afterwards, Rex heads over to the Palace Hotel’s dining room and Marcie’s table – with a known hooker no less – to offer his version of a condolence, as phony as a three-dollar bill, and yet... Damned if I’m buying his entire act. He’s so far off the radar of civilized society, in civilized society facade—rarely shaken—but he’s deftly holding back something else entirely, something else I doubt 90 percent of OLTL fans would even recognize if Rex allowed a full frontal.
Ok Blondi, I'm following you. We both agree he's phony, but maybe there's something else going on, which there was a reason for holding back on. That's basically what I said in this thread.
Quote:It shows up in the quiet pauses, about two seconds worth, when nobody but the most patient of viewers is paying attention, just about the time everybody else has had enough of his tedious greed, avarice, etc. etc. and has turned away, twiddling thumbs, waiting for a scene with some popular core characters.
Okay, I said I wasn't interested enough that I might be missing something.. so let's see what she says about what we're to be seeing in these pauses. Well, I came back up to this after going through the article, and I didnt' find that answer. If its about how he's fun at times.. Okay, I still say Rex is much more interesting than Cris.. but he's no wolf of Llanview in my opinion
Quote:Just when I’ve about forgotten that Rex had set up Lindsay as a call girl to a political client (after all, weeks and weeks had passed before a follow-up scene occurred), there they are at the hotel, Rex with Karen, the town hooker, just in time to meet said political client. But Lindsay arrives for her lunch date with a friend of Rex’s family, she thinks. Instead of pointing him out and directing Karen to another client elsewhere, Rex tries to change Lindsay’s mind by offering to take her out to lunch himself. Huh? That certainly came from left field. When did Rex develop a conscience about Lindsay, his mark, his means to Jennifer? Yet his about-face when the crux of the situation arose didn’t feel so left field after all, because simmering way way beyond the radar all along, had been his reluctance to use a woman who had grown on him under his savvy radar. Of course, he let Lindsay lunch with the john anyway, it is, after all, Rex. But still... he almost didn’t.After ruminating over my mixed emotions, I realized this all along. It wasn’t a sudden plot point thrown at me to salvage a throwaway villain, it was the culmination of a build-up, carefully, subtly laid at my feet by the master of understatement and perhaps, borrowing from his real-life aspiration since high school, master of disguise, the true art of a magician’s touch coupled with the successful graduate of intensive work... Recently, Jen found herself again at Rex’s nightclub, Ultra Violet, needing a friend and counsel about her pregnancy, clearly an unwanted one. Without coming right out with the whole sorry story, Rex read her moves, choked down the diagnosis and casually offered her an out, no big deal. But remember, this is Rex, who doesn’t offer a stick of gum without an ulterior motive, maybe several. In Jen’s case, he has many, namely, to keep her by his side as a favored playmate. On the surface, his is hardly an act of generosity, but scratch deeper, at what he refuses to tell you, much less Jen, and you’ll see that if he didn’t care about her as a person he accepts warts and all, he wouldn’t have bothered.
This is enough to prove he's not a flat one-note character with no conscience. Heck, I agree... I said 3 notes because he does have one, and because there are moments of Rex being FUN to watch. Because he has a conscience.. that does not mean we are excited to be around him, but okay... she says more
Quote:Ever since he joined the show in May 2002, Lavoisier seemed a doomed man in a doomed role, a complete misfit, not quite leading material opposite the tricky likes of Jessica Buchanan, willing but held back from tackling a gay love story, stuck with ill-conceived origins as Roxy’s hidden afterthought of a son, left with a new regime that didn’t create him out of nowhere and without much of a background. I’m willing to bet odds that Lavoisier painstakingly created his own character’s background, foraged from observations on the set and interactions made more meaningful with co-stars. I’m also willing to bet that whomever appears with Lavoisier in front of the camera has his undivided attention—despite casual, seemingly apathetic, appearances.
Sometimes we have instincts about someone. Yeah, I know about that, spoke to other fans too who insist some serious empathy for a character somehow creates a connection for the actor... we feel someone, can't help it. But, I have yet to see how any of this is about Rex being beyond the 3 notes, except for a prediction of what lies ahead becuase she feels this guy. I, too, mentioned that he might be holding back for a reason.. to leave his options open was my theory, but hea.. maybe there's more to the guy. I'll then regret that at the luncheon, I started to get in line for his autograph after I asked a friend who I forgot.. and she's like "did you get Levoisier's autograph?" I stepped out of the line after realizing I don't really care.
Quote:This relative soap newbie – who moonlights as a part of Street Light Productions, a theater company in Manhattan, co-stars in an upcoming movie, “Wolves of Wall Street,” and will work on “One Day in May,” an independent movie next – doesn’t appear to me to be the type to take any encounters lightly, least of all those which can help flesh his character out fully and provide for the viewers a different experience in entertainment... one that requires total participation, as opposed to that of a couch potato waiting for the actors to do all the work, in typical super heroic fashion.
Good to know we might be in for something better from the guy since he is into his audience.
Quote:Rex doesn’t say what you want to hear. Quite often, he goes beyond the ID to say what you want to shut up, with a fist and a few choice insults right back. And, I daresay, even if he won the heart of Jen, became a multi-millionaire, earned the respect of the entire town of Llanview and revealed a few vulnerabilities or two, he’d still be a big pain in the ass just because it’s fun to be a big fat disgusting raunchy pain in the ass ... the kind of unique character who wouldn’t think twice of digging through his dead mother’s carcass for a diamond ring she accidentally swallowed before croaking.
More about how he's fun.. one of my 3 notes.
Quote:But if you think that’s all there is to Rex, you haven’t been thinking much.
This was the dare that set me upon the path of analyzing the whole thing... I hate to be wrong, but I'm not unwilling... The flipside of being wrong is that I get to find out something new, expand my view... but I didn't get that from this article. I will, however, keep an open mind, as I too, am willing to believe that he's holding back on purpose. I hope so. The show can use all the greats it can get. I only wish I had the ability to write like this Blondi.. so I could express what I'm seeing in Nathaniel better. When it comes to human interaction... Nathaniel is king.
Ladyeevil Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
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(10/12/03 7:04 am) Reply
Thanks for congrats! And Kathy for bringing article.
I wondered if I was chasing my tail getting into acting at this point in my life.. and it was a relief as much as a rush.. all the better being able to share with you guys!
Kathy, I forgot…
About Nathaniel, and wanting to see his dark edges... he already has dark edges, as my banner attempts to remind… but I know I need to make downloads of some of his older scenes so that others can catch the vibe.... and Nathaniel didn’t let go of those layers in Al, he actually seems to make Al work with both sides without it being contradictory, but the writing doesn’t often give much opportunity for him to show more of that side, and that’s what I hope for.
I’m concerned at this point. There’s a fan base coming to OLTL, the Michael Easton fan base. They will be watching Al because he has a supernatural storyline. I actually KNOW they are interested because I leave NMO up on my computer to see the traffic. I catch a lot of people with darkly interesting ezboard names and send them email to say hi… turns out there’s LOTS of Michael Easton fans coming to NMO.
This is an opportunity for the show to pull this fanbase in, but they weren’t there at the Diner with Al and Marcie. They can feel their love, but they weren’t there for the blossoming.. the feeling of falling. Okay, so what to do? Upset a great fan base, Marcal, for some fan base that may or may not pan out? No way! Yet, we need Al to come across to this fan base. I’m thinking, he can’t be VOTN without Al’s body, so the show loses that option. But if they write him dark enough, with some serious edges, the kind that Nathaniel did great with before he was with Marcie, and still have him love Marcie.. it could work. Much as I wish I could be a know it all and dazzle you all with my great concepts.. I can’t figure how to do it.
What I do know is that Nathaniel can pull it off if given the right material because I’ve SEEN what he can do. No ONE, I repeat NO ONE, EVER EVER EVER sent the kind of sensation through my body like Al did when he backed Natalie up to the wall at Llanfair. I know I sound like a broken record… but that kind of appeal doesn’t grow on trees. Its THAT kind of appeal that will get the ME fans. I don’t know if they will GET Marcie… but I believe, there has to be a way to have our cake and eat it too..
Re the article about Levoisier.. Its actually pretty ironic just how much Blondi talks about SPECIFIC points that we addressed here.. I know she's not on this board reading our stuff, but its wierd ya know...
Thanks for bringing it... exactly what I needed. I"ll have to send a postcard to her telling her how much I enjoy her analysis.. I'll bookmark her site.. there's just TOO Many times I enjoy her stuff. I've become her fan after this..
PS, if you see all my edits.. I used my signature so much I exceeded space so I edited them out Edited by: Ladyeevil at: 10/12/03 2:43 pm
Ladyeevil Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
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(10/12/03 7:17 am) Reply
MoMorris...
Get in here girl! Or whenever there's a discussion... so did you like those kinds of classes in college? What do you think about the idea about music and acting?
You a middle school teacher too eh? You know I left teaching this year, to pursue happiness? What a risk, but look at what I've done! I'm no longer miserable.. I look like a million bucks, and getting better everyday... I didn't look this good when I was in college! I'm singing, dancing and acting in night classes! I'm making twice the money in half the time doing something that allows me to practice lines and singing all day, and listen to my tunes... I was teaching algebra and biology at a Catholic school no less (after my experience in Catholic school?What was I thinking?).. no one looking for English teacher, and besides, I analyze things.. logic is my thing... even numbers, so it didn't take too much of a stretch for me to teach it, but its so hard to be creative in such an environment, and the kids aren't into logic puzzles on any level...
I guess it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know which aspect of my Literature degree I focused on. I took every criticism class I could find... My instructors said some of my papers were good enough to polish up and be published. I'm addicted to analyzing things, but the problem is that I love discussing SOAPS more than books.. so it wouldn't do me a bit of good to pursue intellectual criticism.. I use it for my acting though.
When it comes to dreams.. try it as a hobby, and if you don't follow through, maybe its not really what you want... I think that people who make it in a creative area either are lucky and young, OR they love it so much, that they'd do it even if it got them nowhere, because they are DRIVEN.. dare I say... obsessed with their desire to express on that level. If you like to write... then start with small pieces of something that you like to write about, evne if no one reads it... like with my fan fiction... I have no idea where its taking me..but I enjoy it, and I keep weaving back to things I wrote earlier, and surprisingly.. I have this long body of work... I don't know what it means... but I am inclined to do it.
katjam007 Registered User
Posts: 7
(10/12/03 4:20 pm) Reply
Re: Thanks for congrats! And Kathy for bringing article.
Gee, where do I start? Okay, how about here: Who's Blondi anyway? I'm new to OLTL and the internet soap scene, I just figured she was one of many who has an opinion and posts it on the internet. Wasn't aware she was an expert.
I too found it interesting that her article mirrored our discussion. Definitely serendipity at work. I also think she's right on the money on a lot of points. I still stick with my original theory that the writers have given Rex the shaft. The character has layers, but they're all mixed up and out of sync. Rex has enough baggage to make him a very interesting and complex character, but as he stands, at least to me, he's a confusing one. That Levoisier can make him appealing on any level is a testament to his talent as an actor. I truly hope tptb work on his s/l, because I think he can really bring a lot to this show.
Now, back to the man of the site--NM. He does have an energy about him, as if there's always something humming beneath the surface, even if he's in a quiet, loving scene. Like most subjective things I can't analyze or pinpoint it, but I know its there. And like you I hope the writers capitalize on that, and I think they have a great opportunity because he will be embodying two characters at once, at least for a while. That conflict alone can bring out anyone's dark edges.
One thing that I will never understand is why the writers invested a lot of layering into the character of Al Holden, only to kill him off. As I've said before, NM took the character and the s/l way beyond what was written in the script. But even taking a look at the character and the s/l as we've done in the past few posts we can see there is a lot to work with. Al only lost his edge the past few months because the focus was on building up a summertime romance, then breaking everyone's heart, including the audience's, with a lot of soap opera melodrama. And while I think the hospital quad performed brilliantly, I was annoyed at being manipulated by the story like that. Now we know Al/new guy will be around for a while, he has a big s/l coming up and lots of wooing/romance with Marcie (yay!), so we'll see the layers even more. I can't wait to see what NM does with this.
As for ME- well, so far I'm not a fan. And its not because bad boys don't appeal to me, because sometimes they do. I think it has more to do with me seeing a one note performance from ME. Granted he hasn't been in many scenes, but the few I've seen him in haven't made an impact. Who knows, in a few months I may be eating a piping hot plate of crow, but right now to me Levoisier, St. John, and of course Marston (yes, he is the king) are the really talented actors on the show. I enjoy Tim Stickney too, but he's another one who needs a better story.
OT for a minute- I used to be a teacher too, I taught Special Education for a couple of years before I had my kids. Three years ago, when my youngest was 2, I started writing. I tried it on a lark, but now its my passion. I guess I had the dream but I never realized it. I was 32 when I started, and I kept thinking about all the time I "wasted" not pursuing this career that I both love and hate at the same time. But I realized that I needed all those life experiences before I could write. In my twenties I didn't have much to say. I don't have all that much to say in my thirties either, but with age comes wisdom, so I imagine I'll be fairly bursting with thoughts and stories that have to be put down on paper when I hit my 40's, 50's and beyond.
Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
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(10/12/03 1:34 pm) Reply
Serendipity
Quote: Definitely serendipity at work. I also think she's right on the money on a lot of points. I still stick with my original theory that the writers have given Rex the shaft
Serendipity.... Almost as wierd as fairy tales that are similar happening in different parts of the world at the same time.. like universal concepts that everyone is at the same time...
Well, you inspired me enough to pay attention to the man Levosiier. I took the time on yesterday's show, and that's something for me..
Let's hope Blondi is right. As for who she is??? I dunno.. I know she pitched the Diner.. and I know what she says is way cool.. so I'm a fan.
But the thing is.. I'm also a OTWB and Skinthekat fan too.. I really get into cool posters in general. Those two might not GET me anymore, but I'll always think they rock.
Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
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(10/12/03 1:45 pm) Reply
Two characters at once...
Quote: there's always something humming beneath the surface, even if he's in a quiet, loving scene. Like most subjective things I can't analyze or pinpoint it, but I know its there. And like you I hope the writers capitalize on that, and I think they have a great opportunity because he will be embodying two characters at once, at least for a while. That conflict alone can bring out anyone's dark edges.
There's the rub... subjective. Anyone can claim it, in the same way anyone can claim they know god... but the difference? Agreement. A tree falls on the other side of the earth and we weren't there to see it, but a preponderance of evidence says it happened. Well, the NM fans have spoken, therefore.. he's da bomb.
I'm not up on what kinds of things you might know about.. a character embodying two characters at once.. would LOVE your insight. As you know, I'm down witcha girl!
Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
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(10/12/03 4:57 pm) Reply
Re: Thanks for congrats! And Kathy for bringing article.
Quote: Al only lost his edge the past few months because the focus was on building up a summertime romance, then breaking everyone's heart, including the audience's, with a lot of soap opera melodrama. And while I think the hospital quad performed brilliantly, I was annoyed at being manipulated by the story like that. Now we know Al/new guy will be around for a while, he has a big s/l coming up and lots of wooing/romance with Marcie (yay!), so we'll see the layers even more. I can't wait to see what NM does with this.
OMG.. I've been so scared of saying this for fear someone will think I'm not sincere about my Marcal love...
However, I think NM never left old Al behind, which is what I'm feeling from you... I think even the writers didn't forget...
Al always wanted something more from life.. he was willing to manipulate to get it.. true... and he left that behind to a certain extent... but, for the writing, Marcie never wanted Al to confront Deke, but he did... and NM? Didn't miss an opportunity to show that Al still has some layers that wouldn't measure up to Marcie's goody goodyness. And not that I want that for Marcie... I want to see her be real on that level too.
Yeah, on the melodrama though... I'd love to sit here and say... "ha ha... I have enough credibility with my fellow fans for them to believe me so I'll take their feelings and capitalize" but the truth is.. yeah, THAT melodrama is not what I think is so great about NM... it WAS a manipulation that I only forgive because it wasn't intended that way. It was supposed to be the end of Al.. a use for him TPTB thought was what Al was worth... THAT is the part that is hard to forgive.. to not see NM's layering.. to toss it and say its only worth a death scene melodrama.
Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
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(10/12/03 1:59 pm) Reply
Michael Easton....
Quote:As for ME- well, so far I'm not a fan. And its not because bad boys don't appeal to me, because sometimes they do. I think it has more to do with me seeing a one note performance from ME. Granted he hasn't been in many scenes, but the few I've seen him in haven't made an impact. Who knows, in a few months I may be eating a piping hot plate of crow, but right now to me Levoisier, St. John, and of course Marston (yes, he is the king) are the really talented actors on the show. I enjoy Tim Stickney too, but he's another one who needs a better story.
Glad you agree about NM having the kind of layering that he's the king of human interaction. Means even more to me that you see it after seeing your love of the show enough to pick these guys apart... I completely agree with your list, so I'm definitely inclined to add Levoisier simply because you make so much sense along with Blondi.. I'm going to pay more attention to this guy so he came out the winner in all this... Tim Stickney? I was in his fan club back in 96... but I lost track, like everything else until I heard the call from NM... and there was never a bigger TSJ fan... but I'm so into Al these days, Todd has taken a back seat...
And where to begin with ME... I met someone I relate to at the Luncheon... and we relate on so many levels it freaks me out. She feels ME the way I think I feel NM... and we ran across some strange connnections that would freak anyone out...
Anyways, she senses that ME is not happy. PC got cancelled and his acting soul mate is gone... he doesn't CARE, and Melissa Archer doesn't have what it takes to make him react on a level that he can get excited. She thinks.. he does his job, and goes home... simple as that.
Such a shame, becasue OLTL shelled out the bucks I'll bet. IF they want to spend that kind of money, they might as go the distance. Bring Kelly Monaco to us, instead of trying to divide the fan base, OR.. hire someone who can do the job. Kassie's Blair is already so connected to the great TSJ's Todd, that it would be foolish to go there. The only actors that could hold stare with ME are... CH and RS... are they too old for him? Better than Archer, who is obviously NOT there chemistry wise. Archer was better with NM, so I'm willing to credit her with some ability.. it could jsut be chemistry... but even then... she could barely respond with the kind of energy NM was putting out.
The writing is the biggest problem with OLTL
I am no where near as deep as you two, Char and Kathy. But after becoming engrossed in your posts i felt the need to put in my own 2 cents.
I am pretty sure I have posted before how great I think NM and KB are together or apart. They have depth, they can connect (to each other and viewers), they transcend the material they are given. So much of what I know or should say feel I know about Al's character, I know because of the way he is depicted. They are just that damn good.
Am I correct,Char, that you are saying you liked Al when he was a little nuttier? I'm not for showing characters who are completely goody or completely bad. It is the shades of gray that make things interesting. That said I think sometimes falling in love makes u want to be a better person. Can't that be part of what happened to Al when he met Marcie? And I am glad that it was mentioned that despite his relationship with Marcie, when someone messed w/ her his instinct was to kick ass. I loved that.
U said that u wanted Marcie to show her "layers." I read "strength" from that or maybe anger?? What about her confrontation with Deke? Does this not count? Or is it not deep enough for your taste?
As a viewer and fan the most frustrating thing about watching OLTL again is the poor writing, character development, and lack of respect for character history. It's really piss poor. So I don't think that JPR is to blame for his characters lack of depth. I've seen little flicks of something more than the @#%$ we are normally shown. But it is rare. He seems 1 dimensional bcuz he is written that way. I think there could be a lot more to Rex, but like so many other characters he was presented one way. Then another and viewers are left feeling like they really don't connect to the actor. So you don't care. And he is not the only one. Stickney has been underused or misused everytime I watched OLTL. Both he and JPL have the chops, just not the script to unleash it.
It could be said that NM is the better actor bcuz no matter what he is given, he gives everything he has to make it work.
Ladyeevil Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
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(10/12/03 3:26 pm) Reply
Re: The writing is the biggest problem with OLTL
You got it! And you ARE deep about it!!! Don't sell yourself short! AllI do... I just say what I feel... you say what you feel, and then I get feedback.. and I think about that, and respond... react... and someone reads what I think about it and respond off that... we get each other thinking.. its not that we come to the discussion knowing it all (great if we were a know it all but...) .. I mean, maybe we have some ideas abotu what we get from what we see, and we spark each other's imagination, creativity... and you read our stuff and had an opinion...
What do you think these actors do? They react off one another.. if we can't partake in it on some level, there's no point in watching this show.
Love DOES improve one's life.. and love DID make Al contemplate his better side, and think about what's important. Do you think NM understood that enough to play him that way? I think so. I think he knew, maybe instinctively, that fans want something better in life, and they look to soaps to transcend reality... and he gave it to us because he understands that.
Ladyeevil Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
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(10/12/03 6:40 pm) Reply
Re: The writing is the biggest problem with OLTL
Quote:viewers are left feeling like they really don't connect to the actor. So you don't care. And he is not the only one. Stickney has been underused or misused everytime I watched OLTL. Both he and JPL have the chops, just not the script to unleash it. It could be said that NM is the better actor bcuz no matter what he is given, he gives everything he has to make it work.
I know.. I haven't CARED about Rex. But between Blondi and Kathy.. I'm gonna give him some room. I don't think he'll EVER be on the level of NM, but if I expected that from every actor, I'd be one unhappy soap fan. NM exceeds my expectations... you get it... hea, that's why I hang with the Marcalers...
Stickney... omg... RJ is written a freakin broken record... I mean? Anphonio obsession? Oh pulease! Put RJ in Todd and Blair's realm, lord knows he has a history with Blair (and Max but he's gone)... put him in the college scene with Al's story.. do ANYTHING but stick him with dead weight! Sorry to any Anphonio or Cris,the cardboard, fans.
He finally got the story I wanted for him years ago! I wrote for his fan club's newletter back in.. was it 96? I wrote that either Rachael should end up being his kid or something... and we got Keri... which was a total trip.. but why invest in this garbage unlss they will take it to the next level? What a waste of investor's money!!!! And what a waste of talent.. omg.. that man.. Stickney..
Ok, has Marcie and Al's relationship signaled the end of ...
growth for Al? Are we going to be stuck with a character and a great actor with nothing to do except be attached to Marcie? Not that I don't love Marcal I do. But some very valid points were brought up concerning the depth of this character and the fear of never seeing it again. if they just make them a couple with no other ties and no other stories that equals soap opera death. Also, what about Marcie is this as good as she gets?
Ladyeevil Keeper of the Wing at St. Anne's for the Nuts for Nathaniel
DNMF#2
Smitten Kitten
Posts: 533
(10/12/03 3:59 pm) Reply
Thank you!
I wrote about the pros and cons about Marcal... my biggest concern is that that TRUE LOVE signals the end.. look at Max (Al's DAD, hello..) ever since Luna, almost 10 years.. and the character went, uh, no where.
I do love Marcal, but I worry about where to go with it. I am SO aware of who saved NM's job... and I'm among them.. I am a Marcaler too! But I make NO BONES about my belief in the man who made it possible for Marcal to be possible..
Here's the question I posed to the Todd fans... who ELSE could have made MARCAL believable. IMagine Roger HOwarth trying to make falling for Marcie beleiveable? Pulease!!! If that isn't a testament to NM's talent, what is? That's not a put down to KB.. she definitely is equal in this equation, they did it together. They are special, but they are the EXCEPTION. KB has such charisma that she actually IS sexy! But even so... does't mean any actor could have made it real.
So if Al is all about being the perfect man, where is the growth? Well, I'm thinking we need not worry.. I think the issue is valid.. oh yeah.. you bring up someting that is quite valid concern.. but as another character and deealing with that... there will be plenty for Al to overcome...
My feelign is to take it one day at a time. I have NO idea what's in store. I hope that Al continues to be fleshed, and that his EPIPHANY about life doesn't end his journey. Life is a journey.. and Al has a way to go... his life didn't end... so where will this journey go? If he had lived, we'd have good reason to be concerned.. but ironically, maybe this was the best thing that could have happpend to Al.
Re: Ok, has Marcie and Al's relationship signaled the end of
maybe this was the best thing that could have happpend to Al.
I would hate to believe they brought him back to write him into the hole. But look at what they did w/ kerri's character...For the record though, I see this storyline being a Knockout.
Also on the Max subject, I never paid much attention to Max. I thought he was great with Roxy but btween him and tptb apparently he was doomed to go. And I say that bcuz even though he was fired, I heard they came up w/ several storylines for him that he shot down. I really liked him w/ Roxy.
I definately agree w/ not every actor being able to make Marcal work. I once read that she and NM had chemistry from the very 1st scene. That is what is missing from a lot of OLTL couples right now. But that is also not necessarily something that can be conjured up, so I don't know how much chemistry, or lack there of, can be accredited or blamed on the actors. It is a natural mix that it either blends for the perfect flavor or leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
katjam007 Registered User
Posts: 8
(10/13/03 9:10 am) Reply
Re: There's really no place to hypothesize about the show re
First off- I'm so glad Mo and MsT are joining in this discussion! The more the merrier- I know some people don't get into analysis. My hubby hates watching tv/film with me because I end up poking major holes in the story and he just wants to turn his brain off and enjoy it. I'm really getting into the discussion...obviously.
Quote:I'm not up on what kinds of things you might know about.. a character embodying two characters at once.. would LOVE your insight. As you know, I'm down witcha girl!
I'm down witcha too, Char. I think we're all on the same page here.
I almost hate to spec on a public board like this, because this is all coming from the tidbits I've gleaned from different sites/discussion along with a HUGE dose of my imagination. But there are many different ways this story can go. If Al is in a character that is homophobic and Marcie already hates him, that's one hurdle to overcome. Then there's the conflicting beliefs about that between Al and the character. I imagine that Al will be struggling not only with the physical strangeness of being in a different body, but he will be aware of (at least on some level)his new body's history, emotions, and connections with others. It all might be very vague, but it will be there, and he'll have to deal with it. This may be something that NM has to bring to the role, it may not be explicitly written in the script. So the audience may sense all of this in NM's portrayal. Not to mention if said character has any ties to Llanview, or ties to anyone for that matter. Unless the character is a homeless person with no family/friends at all, I would think Al would have to navigate the new character's realm too.
Then there's upping the ante even more- what if the new character is part of Marcie's problem? What if he's involved in a group that is out to hurt her or her family? Or Gabrielle, even? What if Al's mission is to save Marcie and his mom, only to find out that he now inhabits the man who is supposed to do them harm? And if this character is involved in a complicated plan with several people...well, I could go on and on, but as you can see there are lots of options in this type of s/l.
kathy
katjam007 Registered User
Posts: 9
(10/13/03 9:19 am) Reply
Re: There's really no place to hypothesize about the show re
Quote:Anyways, she senses that ME is not happy. PC got cancelled and his acting soul mate is gone... he doesn't CARE, and Melissa Archer doesn't have what it takes to make him react on a level that he can get excited. She thinks.. he does his job, and goes home... simple as that.
My deepest apologies to ME because I'm not into slamming actors...but what you've said about his doing the job and going home is what sets NM apart from all the rest. And JDP too, in the end. But JDP's sitch is different because he wanted to go. It's been downhill for him for a while.
NM knew he was out the door, yet he kept turning in performance after amazing performance. I wouldn't presume to speak for him, but I could naturally draw the conclusion that he wasn't happy about being fired and there might have been some resentment there. Yet if there was, he didn't let that spill into the character and his acting. Giving 120% after you've been fired is just amazing to me. No one would have faulted him at all for just going through the motions. By giving his all he earned the respect of new fans, and increased the adulation of his existing fan base. (Which is the best, btw!)
kathy
katjam007 Registered User
Posts: 10
(10/13/03 9:44 am) Reply
Re: There's really no place to hypothesize about the show re
Quote:As a viewer and fan the most frustrating thing about watching OLTL again is the poor writing, character development, and lack of respect for character history. It's really piss poor.
MsT- this is so true. The really strange thing is that I've seen snippets of very good writing, but they are few and far between. I just don't understand it. I think now OLTL has a chance to be groundbreaking- they've already done it with the unconventional pairing of Marcal. Now with the new Al s/l they have a broad canvas to work with. But the clincher, imo, is that they now are more in touch with their fans. They know we want realism, we want layered characterization, we want stories we can empathize with...stories we can feel. Sure we want romance, but we want a solid, believable foundation for the romance. We want conflict, but we want valid motivation behind it. The audience watching this show isn't filled with bon bon eating housewives who are grateful for any little bit of excitement thrown their way. I may have the body of a bon bon eater (that's a WHOLE other discussion) but I'm picky about my entertainment. My time is valuable, and I consider the investment I make watching NM/KB and discussing/gushing/analyzing their performances, characters and s/l well worth it. It would be icing on the cake if I could find even more about this show to like, especially when NM/KB aren't on. Hopefully we'll be getting that in the future.
Mo
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